Happy Independence Day! We’ll be back next week with a new episode, but today we’re sharing the episode that started us on the path to “Interesting Times.” Ross Douthat talks to Reihan Salam, the president of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. Together they wrote the book “Grand New Party: How Republicans Can Win the Working Class and Save the American Dream.”They review their George W. Bush-era prescriptions for the Republican Party to reclaim the working-class vote and the ways they were right (and wrong) about building a new Republican majority.03:47 George W. Bush era12:06 Rise and fall of the Tea Party18:19 Trump’s 2016 “blood and guts” message28:11 Trump’s effect on the right and left35:48 Trump’s first term economic agenda39:30 Elon Musk vs JD Vance46:50 Imagining an activist, conservative government(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Ask this episode

“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.