In this explosive long‑form debate, Jillian Michaels hosts Nick Matau (pro‑Israel) and Ben Burgis (pro‑Palestine) for a no‑holds‑barred clash over the most controversial questions on earth: Who really owns the land? Is a one‑state solutionwith equal rights even possible, or is the two‑state solution dead forever? Are Palestinians permanent second‑class non‑citizens under Israeli rule, and does international law actually back the “occupation” claim – or is that all propaganda? Nick Matau argues that Israel is a besieged democracy fighting for survival, defending Jewish self‑determination, security, and the legitimacy of Israeli control over Judea and Samaria/West Bank, while rejecting claims that Israel is genocidal or racist. Ben Burgis counters that Israel has effectively built a single state “from the river to the sea” where millions of Palestinians live as subjects, not citizens, comparing the system to South African apartheid and challenging the morality and legality of occupation, settlement expansion, and ethnic discrimination. Together, they dig into the Oslo Accords, Camp David, the Green Line, settlement blocs, Gaza, Jerusalem, the Hamas charter, and whether “genocide in Gaza” is a legal reality or a weaponized slogan. They argue over whether Palestinians have truly been offered a viable state, if 1967 borders matter under international law, and if granting full citizenship to millions of Palestinians would destroy the Jewish character of Israel or finally deliver justice and peace. Watch this uncensored conversation if you’re searching for: “Nick Matau Israel debate”, “Ben Burgis Palestine debate”, “Israel Palestine debate podcast”, “Israel Gaza war explained”, “Israel apartheid or self‑defense”, “one‑state vs two‑state solution”, “is it genocide in Gaza”, "Is Zionism colonization", "Is anti-zionism antisemitism”? Watch and decide for yourself! Is a one-state democratic solution the only way out, or is partition the only answer? Let’s debate in the comments—keep it civil. 👉 Subscribe, like, and share to support real, uncensored conversations! CHAPTERS 00:00 - INTRO 01:50 - Right to Exist Arguments 02:45 - One State Solution Explained 04:00 - Palestinian Human Rights Debate 06:50 - West Bank Housing Discrimination 09:40 - Is Israel Apartheid State 11:30 - Oslo Accords History Explained 14:40 - Hamas Charter Peace Process 17:20 - 1967 Borders Land Swaps 21:50 - Green Line Border Relevance 25:10 - East Jerusalem Citizenship Rights 27:20 - West Bank Annexation Strategy 32:20 - Six Day War History 35:10 - Arab Peace Initiative 2002 42:40 - Radical Islamic Ideology Impact 44:10 - South Africa Apartheid Analogy 50:20 - October 7 Terror Attacks 52:50 - 1929 Hebron Massacre History 56:40 - Moderate Palestinian Political Representation 59:50 - Gaza Casualties Death Toll 01:01:30 - UN Genocide Convention Definition 01:04:10 - ICJ South Africa Israel 01:06:20 - International Humanitarian Law Violations 01:10:00 - Quince Summer Fashion Sponsor 01:11:15 - US Foreign Policy Israel 01:13:20 - Middle East Peace Solutions 01:18:50 - Jewish Character of State 01:21:40 - Jewish Autonomy Equal Rights 01:27:00 - Gay Rights in Palestine 01:30:10 - Ultimate One State Reality 01:36:00 - Is Peace Possible 💬 Drop Your Thoughts Below! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ask this episode

“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

Transcript

Related