King Of The Lifts
Episodes
Two-time World Champion Joy Nnamani joins KOTL!
10 Feb 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Two-time World Champion Joy Nnamani joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss his rise to the top of the 52 kg class, how 6 Pack snubbed her while working for t...
Drama with Nationals & untested PL!!
06 Feb 2021
Contributed by Lukas
We discuss the rising tensions surrounding the decisions made about the National Championships in the US and Canada as well as World wide. Also discus...
The Top 4 Powerlifters of All-Time!
05 Feb 2021
Contributed by Lukas
The top 4 Powerlifters of the IPF in the modern "Classic/Raw" division are given! This is a special segment from LS McClain's podcast (CORNER of the C...
Jen Thompson & Jessica Buettner joins KOTL!!
03 Feb 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Multiple-times World Champion / Bench GOAT Jen Thompson & owner of the biggest 72 kg total of all-time Jessica Buettner join 6 Pack Lapadat & Arian "M...
US Raw Nats: Everything you need to know
25 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Everything you need to know about the US Raw Nationals 2021 is covered this episode with US national team coaches Arian "Messy" Khamesi & "Big" Bill M...
The Great Debate: Changing The Game
21 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
The Jonnie Candito video that rattled the Powerlifting community with its proposed rule changes is debated! Arian "Messy" Khamesi & Bill McCarthy retu...
The Power of Belief: Matt Vena
17 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Two-time Canadian National Champion and IPF Worlds bronze medalist Matt Vena joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss a fast rise to the top, the insane discip...
Looking ahead at 2021, and back at 2020
03 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
The round table comes back together for a look back at 2020 and a look ahead at 2021! Discussed are the lifters of the year, great comebacks, break th...
John Haack & Andy Huang: 2020 recap part 1!!
29 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
John Haack & Andy Huang (2 Bros, 1 Shaker Cup) join for the special 2020 review for the untested division of Powerlifting! Lifter of the year (men &...
Holidays Special Part Two: IPF edition!!
24 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Part two of the Special Holiday Editions covers the IPF! The boys give their wish list, naughty list, and give gifts to the sport (and athletes). ...
Holidays Special Part 1: John Haack & Andy Huang!!
22 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
John Haack & Andy Huang join KOTL for a special Holidays episode. They discuss their new podcast (2 guys, 1 shaker cup), and the crew make a naughty l...
Jesus Olivares: The Showdown with Ray Williams
16 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
2020 #1 ranked IPF Super Heavyweight Jesus Olivares weighs in on his imminent showdown with Ray Williams, chasing Dan Bell, his working relationship w...
Triumph Through Trails: Sophia Ellis joins KOTL!!
09 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Sophia Ellis joins 6 Pack Lapadat and tells her story of overcoming mental illness that manifested into an eaten disorder that almost killed her. PTSD...
The Deadlift Demon Rises in Hungary! Ena joins KOTL!
05 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Owner of the biggest deadlift in the 83 kg class history, Enahoro Asein joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss his rapid progression as a lifter, growing up ...
Austin Perkins: I'll be #1, I'll be King!
21 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Austin "The Future" Perkins joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss being the first junior 74 kg lifter to total 800 kg, and only second ever (with Taylor Atw...
David Ricks: From Norton to Norris, battling men half his age!
13 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
David Ricks discusses: Breaking open World records while in his late 50s Giving Jesse Norris the biggest battle of his legendary career Having Layne...
Sean Noriega returns to KOTL!!
06 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Noriega joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss maskgate, his suspension & appeal, joining Brett Gibbs and Russel Orhii in the 10x bodyweight total club,...
Yury Belkin joins KOTL!!
30 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Yury Belkin speaks on his rise to the top of Powerlifting in his first podcast appearance ever! Discussed: drug testing and his suspension, a clash wi...
Hunter Henderson joins KOTL!!!
25 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Hunter Henderson joins 6 Pack Lapadat for her first ever podcast appearance! Hunter discusses her early childhood struggles that nearly cost her life,...
Squat University joins KOTL!!!
23 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Squat University's Dr. Aaron Horschig joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss common issues Powerlifters may face with their lifts, some warm up drills to avo...
Papa Bear Rogers joins KOTL: author of his own story
16 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Travis "Papa Bear" Rogers joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss how the kid growing up in middle America on a farm went through a journey that led to alcoho...
The first ever podcast guest returns 4 years later!
11 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Micah Marino returns to KOTL to discuss his comeback with two new knees and two pec tears, the need for head to head competition in Powerlifting, losi...
Andy Huang returns! The Comeback at the Showdown!
04 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Andy Huang returns to discuss his gruesome injury and valiant comeback at the Showdown Meet! We also recap the event, cover the storylines, and talk a...
How the biggest meet of the year came together!!
23 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
How the biggest meet of the year came to be! The story leading up to this historic event is a wild one! Showdown Meet Director, Luke Bright, joins 6 ...
Showdown Preview w/ Garrett Fear!!
21 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Garrett Fear returns to preview the biggest meet of the year, The Showdown Meet! Also discussed is dream showdowns of John Haack vs Yury Belkin and St...
Mighty Joe Sullivan Returns to KOTL!!!
18 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Mighty Joe Sullivan returns to the KOTL podcast and let's loose on Powerlifting politics, suing the government and winning, beefs in Powerlifting, cal...
Daniel Bell joins KOTL!!!
14 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Super Heavyweight record breaker (in & out of wraps) Dan Bell joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss taking the #1 spot, who is threatening to take the thron...
Robb Philippus joins KOTL!!
10 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Robb Philippus joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss his rise to the top of Powerlifting! Growing up as a football player and wrestler, to fighting in MMA, ...
Kheycie Romero joins KOTL!
10 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Kheycie Romero joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss how a "soft" mathlete who studied in 8 hour math sessions transformed into an elite Powerlifter!
Garrett Fear returns to KOTL!!
02 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Garrett Fear joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss how the untested side of Powerlifting can improve, IPF/USAPL elitists, his various social media beefs, th...
Cenk Kocak: The Future King of the 120s!!!
18 Aug 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Turkey's first IPF World Champion, Cenk Kocak, discusses with 6 Pack Lapadat his rise up the ranks, putting Turkey on the map in Powerlifting, his tri...
Gabrielle Santarosa joins KOTL!!
10 Aug 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Gabrielle Santarosa joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss prepping for Powerlifting vs. Bodybuilding, social media's pros and cons, the mental battles an at...
Rob Kearney: The Underdog's On Top
04 Aug 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Rob Kearney, The World's Strongest Gay, joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss how he went from coming in last the first 8 competitions of his career, to mak...
An unlikely hero emerges as a contender!
30 Jul 2020
Contributed by Lukas
New Zealand's Chris Kennedy joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss his story of overcoming a drug addiction, joining a fight club while serving a prison sent...
Steve Johnson aka Forsaken Warrior joins KOTL!!
22 Jul 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Steve Johnson aka The Forsaken Warrior joins 6 Pack Lapadat and discusses his past as an MMA fighter, working in the US jail system (some stories you ...
The Women's 72s (+1) join KOTL!!!
13 Jul 2020
Contributed by Lukas
The Stars of the 72kg class join 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss the heavy possibility the weight class will be closed (and a 69 kg and 76 kg classes opened...
USAPL President Larry Maile joins KOTL!!
10 Jul 2020
Contributed by Lukas
USAPL President Larry Maile joins 6 Pack Lapadat, IPF World Champion Ryan Stills, and two time IPF World Champion LS McClain, for his first podcast ap...
Jerry Pritchett, Strongman Champion, joins KOTL!!
06 Jul 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Strongman Deadlift World Champion/World record breaker Jerry Pritchett joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss capturing the World title but sharing the honor...
New Weight Classes in Powerlifting!
01 Jul 2020
Contributed by Lukas
American National Team Coaches Arian 'Messi' Khamesi and 'Big' Bill McCarthy return to join 6 Pack Lapadat (and briefly Rory Lynch) to discuss the pro...
Angelo Fortino & KOTL give 2 White Lights
23 Jun 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Angelo Fortino, the biggest 83 kg deadlifter of all time and host of 2 White Lights podcast, joins 6 Pack Lapadat to speak on the game, chicken heels,...
Steve Gentili opens up like never before!
18 Jun 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Steve Gentili joins 6 Pack Lapadat and opens up about his troubled youth, stints in the system, battles with drug addiction, and overcoming his past s...
Bobbie Butters: Channeling The Fight Within
14 Jun 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Bobbie Butters, IPF Worlds medalist, joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss her entry into Powerlifting, the mind games we play to attack PRs, performing at...
Pulling planes & breaking records!
11 Jun 2020
Contributed by Lukas
6 Pack Lapadat sits down with Jake Downes to discuss overcoming fear of failure, the key to facing stage freight, pushing yourself to extreme fatigue ...
LS: The rest of the story...
06 Jun 2020
Contributed by Lukas
This is the other 3 hours of the conversation between LS McClain and 6 Pack Lapadat. Topics range from Powerlifting showdowns, to coaching, leadershi...
The language of the unheard: LS McClain
01 Jun 2020
Contributed by Lukas
LS McClain opens up on the George Floyd murder, the ensuing protests, rioting, police brutality, systematic racism, centuries of oppression, the reali...
Taylor Atwood approaching his 'Last Dance'?
28 May 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Taylor Atwood joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss the trash talk in the 74 kg class, whom he feels is the biggest threat to his throne, his motivation to ...
63 kg Queen Carola Garra joins KOTL!
22 May 2020
Contributed by Lukas
63 kg Queen Carola Garra joins 6 Pack Lapadat from Italy! Carola discusses the ultra competitive 63 kg class, whom she feels is the biggest threat to ...
Get ready, Screamer Manuel returns to KOTL!!
18 May 2020
Contributed by Lukas
The Dennis Rodman of Powerlifting, Screamer Manuel, returns to KOTL!! Over drinks, Screamer opens up and speaks candidly on his recent social media po...
The Leader of the Revolution: Pana joins KOTL!
10 May 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Leader of the French Revolution in Powerlifting, Panagiotis Tarinidis joins 6 Pack Lapadat! Pana discusses how France has made such major strides in P...
Coaching of Champions: Justin Reeson joins KOTL!
07 May 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Justin Reeson, coach to Jessica Buettner & Brett Gibbs among others, joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss how he formulas his programs, game day coaching a...
Mikey D joins KOTL!!!
30 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Michael Davis joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss his entry into the sport as a 115 lbs kid, and his emergence as a 105 kg contender to the throne! Davis ...
Amanda Lawrence returns to KOTL!!
27 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Amanda Lawrence joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss her rise to claiming the IPF 84 kg Crown, joining Joey Flexx's team, how she deals with the pressures ...
Powerlifting's biggest upsets analyzed!
27 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
The behind the scenes that lead to Powerlifting's biggest upsets and changing of momentum! Some great showdowns are analyzed, and strategic moves expl...
France's Triple Threat invades KOTL!!
20 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
France's Triple Threat of Lya Bavoil, Samantha Eugenie and Noemie Allabert join 6 Pack Lapadat for a special episode that brings you the inside scoop ...
The man your coach fears: Avi Silverberg
17 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Veteran National Team Head Coach Avi Silverberg outlines the keys to becoming a master handler, some strategies you can employ, rules to run your team...
From MMA to Powerlifting: Ireland's Sean Crowe
17 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Irish National Team coach Sean Crowe joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss his journey from being a professional MMA fighter, swapping punches with UFC Cham...
Jessica Buettner joins KOTL!!!
12 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Jessica Buettner joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss her legendary weight cutting escapades, the battle in Sweden for World honors, unofficially beating t...
The Art Of Handling: NZ Coach Rory Lynch joins KOTL!
10 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
New Zealand National Team Coach Rory Lynch joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss the art of handling at a Powerlifting competition, some of the biggest blun...
US coaching staff Bill McCarthy & Arian Khamesi join KOTL
04 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
"Big" Bill McCarthy and Arian "Messy" Khamesi of the US National team coaching staff join 6 Pack Lapadat for some insight into the game of handling at...
Joey Flexx returns to KOTL and gets deep!!
02 Apr 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Joey Flexx joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss what has happened with Powerlifting, his top 3 most memorable moments while coaching (the stories will give...
Fear is your friend, intimation is not & Isaac Baik
31 Mar 2020
Contributed by Lukas
6 Pack Lapadat & Kafui Hotsonyame discuss how fear is a necessary feeling to top athletes to perform at their best. They also discuss how this is not ...
The Arnold Classic win and beyond: Brittany Suplicki
29 Mar 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Brittany Suplicki joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss how she got into Powerlifting, the current bizzare global situation, he take on social media's influ...
Chasing Ray Williams & World records: Tre Thomas
23 Mar 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Tre Thomas joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss how he first joined Powerlifting as part of the infamous spotting crew at the 2016 IPF Worlds that saw the ...
Ashton's triumph, Seay's agony, Calhoun's strategy: Arnold Recap
14 Mar 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Joe Stanek joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss the storylines from the Arnold Classic. Among the discussion topics are Micheal Seay's unfortunate bomb out...
COVID-19 kills SBD Invitational & IPF Worlds!
14 Mar 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Joe Stanek joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss the recent cancelation of the SBD Invitational, and postponement of the IPF World Championships for Bench a...
Canadian Nationals Preview Show: Men's division
01 Mar 2020
Contributed by Lukas
The Strength Guys join 6 Pack Lapadat & Kafui Hotsonyame to Preview the Canadian Nationals! This episode focuses on the men's division. The battles, t...
Canadian Nationals Preview Show: Women's division
01 Mar 2020
Contributed by Lukas
The Strength Guys join 6 Pack Lapadat to Preview the Canadian Nationals! This episode focuses on the women's division. The battles, the back stories, ...
Bonus episode: 2 girls, 1 King
27 Feb 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Bonus episode: this is KOTL's 6 Pack Lapadat recent appearance on the 2 girls, 3 lifts podcast. Among the discussed topics is how reposts on KOTL are ...
Arnold Classic Preview Show w/ Matt Gary!
24 Feb 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Will Micheal Seay break the 800 kg barrier? Will Sam Calhoun move into the lead as the #1 63 kg lifter in the IPF? Can Ashton Rouska send a statement ...
Controversial calls, drama in the 74s, battling 72s: Jasmyn Penn
19 Feb 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Jasmyn Penn joins 6 Pack Lapadat and Kafui Hotsonyame to discuss the controversial calls at the World Championships in Sweden that made the gold medal...
Powerlifting's Bitter Rivalry: Blaine Sumner joins KOTL
15 Feb 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Blaine Sumner joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss a horrific injury while squatting that almost killed him, his struggling slump on the International scen...
Road to 800: Micheal Seay on the 74s!!
11 Feb 2020
Contributed by Lukas
The Young King, Micheal Seay, discusses his goal of a 800 kg total and his 74 kg rivals. Seay opens up about the trash talk between his fellow 74s, wh...
From the highest peak to the deepest valley: Tony Cliffe is ready for the Invitational!
04 Feb 2020
Contributed by Lukas
2019 was a tale of the greatest peaks and deepest valleys for the UK's Tony Cliffe. A year, a decade in the making, Tony claimed the Classic IPF 120 k...
Champion vs Champion: Dots creator joins KOTL!!!
30 Jan 2020
Contributed by Lukas
The creator of the Dots formula joins KOTL to discuss how his formula was created, how is differs from the Wilks formula & IPF points, some interestin...
Growing up homeless the forest to making history: Chris Duffin joins KOTL!!!
26 Jan 2020
Contributed by Lukas
From growing up homeless in the forest to putting himself through college and becoming a successful entrepreneur, Chris Duffin details his remarkable ...
After 17 years on the sidelines a legend shocks lifters half his age
20 Jan 2020
Contributed by Lukas
From competing along side legends like Ed Coan &Captain Kirk Karwoski in the early 90's to a return to the sport after a 17-year hiatus and winning th...
Powerlifters: Social media lied to you. here is the truth..
13 Jan 2020
Contributed by Lukas
In an episode that busts some myths, uncovers some truths, and rises new questions, we crunch statistics and look into whether Powerlifting is still g...
Mike T, Bryce Lewis, Arthur Lynch: Decade in Review!!
08 Jan 2020
Contributed by Lukas
RTS head coach Mike T, IPF World Champion & TSA head coach Bryce Lewis, No Lift Podcast host Arthur Lynch, and 6 Pack Lapadat take a look at the past ...
2019 Year End Awards Show!!
31 Dec 2019
Contributed by Lukas
The 2019 Year-end Awards Show! The Best Lifter (Overall and for Squat/Bench/Deadlift), Biggest Upset Win, Best Comeback, 5 Biggest Moments, Most Impro...
Guest of the Year: Garrett Fear (recast)
30 Dec 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Garret Fear reveals a shocking life of being fascinated by drugs at 5, a 2 pack a day smoker by 12, and OD'ing on heroin at 15, while being one of 17 ...
Pulling planes, flipping cars, a TV show, and Powerlifting: The KOTL Story
24 Dec 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Motivated by the death of a close one, 6 Pack Lapadat began visiting cancer camps for kids, public schools, to give motivational speeches and raise mo...
European Championships Recap Show!!!
15 Dec 2019
Contributed by Lukas
We give our MVP award, the person the watch for at the 2020 Worlds, and most improved for both the men's and women's division! Also, a division by div...
The advantage over your competition you are missing
12 Dec 2019
Contributed by Lukas
6 Pack Lapadat is joined by The Strength Guys coach Kedric Kwan who is currently a PhD candidate researching rapid weight loss methods for the stren...
Ray Williams, IPF Worlds, pulling for the win: Siim Rast joins KOTL!
07 Dec 2019
Contributed by Lukas
The Estonian Giant, Siim Rast, joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss his rise in the 120 + kg class of Powerlifting, the 2019 IPF World Championships, winni...
European Championships Preview Show!!
02 Dec 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Division by division breakdown of the Open at the European Championships! IPF World Champions and record breakers battle it out! Our picks for the pod...
Mark Bell, Record Breakers stops, Gaston re-elected, Kjell Bakklund GOAT tamer
02 Dec 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Mark Bell fires shots at IPF judging, Record Breakers no longer holding competitions and people you know are giving theiropinions, Gaston re-elected t...
The come-from-behind Worlds win, Kloie Doublin, and more: Ida Ronn!!
28 Nov 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Ida Ronn joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss her dramatic come-from-behind Worlds win in her home nation of Sweden, finding out about Kloie Doublin, how s...
Defending the homeland, Training Changes, Pressure, The Rematch: Gustav Hedlund joins KOTL!!
26 Nov 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Gustav Hedlund joins 6 Pack Lapadat to discuss defending the homeland at the IPF Worlds in Sweden, changes to training, his rematch with the current I...
Heather Connor: Beefs, Secret Security, Controversial Calls, Nats & Worlds
19 Nov 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Heather Connor pulls no punches as she brings up a beef with a Worlds competitor, an interesting (and vague) description about her special Internation...
Big Dogs 4 Champ O'Dell Manuel joins KOTL!!
14 Nov 2019
Contributed by Lukas
At 41 years old, with no cartilage in one knee, and a hamstring that tore right off the bone on the other leg, O'Dell Manuel had to make some hard dec...
Russel Orhii on US Nats, Depth, Atwood, Gibbs, 2020 Worlds, SBD Invitational
10 Nov 2019
Contributed by Lukas
83 kg IPF World Champion Russel Orhii returns to KOTL to discuss his scare during the squat event at the US Raw Nationals, if he thought he was about ...
Sam Calhoun puts KOTL on the hot seat!!
09 Nov 2019
Contributed by Lukas
On the US Raw Nationals Preview Show I picked against Sam Calhoun. She called me out for a wrong pick, and put together the biggest 63 kg performance ...
Bryce Lewis returns! Ready for the second Chapter
06 Nov 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Bryce Lewis discusses why he stepped away from Powerlifting for a year, what it was like to watch the 105s from the sidelines, his journey back to pea...
Jennifer Millican gets the last laugh!
04 Nov 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Jennifer Millican gets at 6 Pack Lapadat for sleeping on her 63 kg National team aspirations for the 2020 World Championships! Also discussed is her d...
Dennis Cornelius joins KOTL! The King returns!
31 Oct 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Dennis Cornelius returns to the US Raw Nationals and to KOTL! Dennis joins 6 Pack Lapadat and Kafui Hotsonyame to discuss his venture into the US Open...
The 74 kg Boyz Part 2: The Battle isn't over!
28 Oct 2019
Contributed by Lukas
"King" Taylor Atwood, Micheal Seay aka The Black Panther, Austin "The Future" Perkins, and Ricky "The Villain" Cho (who says he was boo'd during squa...
US Raw Nationals Recap Show 2019!!
27 Oct 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Matt Gary joins 6 Pack Lapadat for a division by division recap, including the battle of the 74s, Orhii's squat scare, Cayco's domination, Dennis Corn...
Russel Orhii addresses the doubters!!!
16 Oct 2019
Contributed by Lukas
IPF 83 kg World Champion Russel Orhii joins 6 Pack Lapadat to address the 74 kg Boyz episode of KOTL he heard that questioned his squat depth. Russel ...
The USAPL Raw Nats Preview Show!!
15 Oct 2019
Contributed by Lukas
Complete breakdown of the 2019 USAPL Raw Nationals! Matt Gary joins 6 Pack Lapadat for a division by division break down of who to watch, what are the...
Kloie Doublin eyes the Throne!!!
15 Oct 2019
Contributed by Lukas
At only 20 years old, Kloie Doublin will attempt to become the youngest ever to take the 72 kg throne. Kloie joins 6 Pack Lapadat and Kafui to discuss...