This week, Hunter and Peyton review Ryan Coogler’s new box-office hit Sinners, dig into the true-crime case of Karen Read, and talk about who they can’t wait to see at The Met Gala.Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletterListen to Lemme Say This on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new episodes on YouTube and listen to weekly exclusive bonus content by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/lemme-say-this/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapter 1: Who are the hosts of 'Sinners Are Winners' and what is their dynamic?
This is a mess. I don't go here.
Well, let's set up. Okay, we are in LA right now because... Can't you tell? Everything looks better. Everything looks nicer. She's addicted. She loves this life. No, no. Ooh, she's about to get a lobotomy. I can't wait. I can't wait. We're in L.A., yeah. We're in L.A. to see a little friend of ours. A good friend. We go way back to childhood, actually. I've been knowing her for a minute.
She actually might have given birth.
I've been knowing her for a while.
Chapter 2: What is the significance of attending Beyoncé's Renaissance Tour opening night?
A little gal called Beyonce Giselle Knowles-Carter. Yeah.
Heard of her? Well, you won't stop hearing about it because we'll be talking about this for forever. We are going to Cowboy Carter. Opening night. Opening night.
Opening night. Opening night. I don't know why I thought it was yesterday for some reason. See, you play about her. Oh. And that's why I play about you. Oh.
You ate that.
Period, Hunter. We... Oh, God. Can't wait. We didn't go to Renaissance together, but we will be going. We almost did. But Hunter went to Stockholm.
When did we almost go to Renaissance together?
You invited me to come. Oh, she does play about me. My God. Yeah, I really do.
But she said I forgot already. So two years ago, I went to Renaissance opening night in Stockholm. Yeah. And I reviewed it for New York Magazine. And it was maybe one of the more chaotic weeks of my life. I went from... I think I went from Kansas to Stockholm and then back to Kansas to pick up Remy. I became a mother. Nine months pregnant at Renaissance World Tour opening night. Holding that baby.
I was. I was. And yeah, it was. Okay. This is the thing. I love Renaissance. Yeah. But it's no Beachella. And I know you were there. So go ahead. Go ahead. I'm setting you up. Well, yes.
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Chapter 3: How did Hunter and Peyton's Disneyland birthday celebration unfold?
Well, okay, but you forgot. He told us five minutes. And then five minutes later, he came back and said, it's going to be just five more minutes. I said... Timer's been started. And he said, start a timer. I said, okay, great. Timer's been started. Lewis was like, what do we win, though, if we just sit here longer?
But he came back. He said, how am I doing on time?
I said, you got two minutes and 17 seconds, 16 seconds, 15 seconds. And then he got us in. Shout out to Matthew, though. He was on a different type of time. Matthew was. I was like, poor. And then Louis saying, Matthew has no pull. I was like, don't say it loud enough so Matthew can hear. He's working on our behalf. No, I mean, he couldn't do shit for us. But my man, my man, my man. We love you.
What are we talking about this week? Oh, we're talking about your community, sinners. Hell yeah. And the start of the Karen Reid trial in Massachusetts. When I tell you... Get me some Dunkin' Donuts because I'm locked in on this Massachusetts drama. And then we're talking about the Met Gala. Yeah. Little Met Gala preview. Heard of it. So let me just say this. Let me say this.
Are you looking for a home for your worst opinions?
Are you a hater first, but a lover of pop culture second? Consider this a glorified group chat, but we're not calling you out. No, no, no. We're calling you in. It's a safe space to talk shit. But of course, from Wondery, I'm Peyton Dix. And I'm Hunter Harris. And this is Let Me Say This. Let me say this. Let me say this.
When Luigi Mangione was arrested for allegedly shooting the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, he didn't just spark outrage, he ignited a cultural firestorm. Is the system working, or is it time for a reckoning? I'm Jesse Weber. Listen to Law & Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus.
I'm so excited to talk about Sinners. Oh, God. Yes, it's so good. I saw it when I was in Tulsa in IMAX. Thank God. Yeah. My dad saw it separately from me. And my dad, who famously called Wild, the movie where Reese Witherspoon does all that walking. He said, I thought it was gonna be a church movie. He said, I didn't know it was gonna be a horror movie.
I didn't know there were gonna be vampires there. I was like, so why did you go see it? Yeah. Did he like it? He was like, I was very surprised. He liked it, but he kept saying, I was very surprised. I was very surprised when there were vampires there. I was very surprised when it didn't turn churchy. I was like, oh, Lord.
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Chapter 4: What is the plot and reception of Ryan Coogler’s movie 'Sinners'?
After Sinners, not like Fruitvale Station. He was fantastic in that.
Well, yes, but we've been so far from that. It was like, you know, a good performance, but I was like, eh.
What did you say about the way he was playing it in your newsletter? It was so funny. Like, what characters he was playing Smoke and Stack as. When I was watching it, I was thinking Michael B. Jordan was playing Stack as if he was his role in Black Panther. And then Smoke as if he was Creed. Mm-hmm. Well, I love a villain. What can I say? Well, okay, bad girl.
I'm a bad girl.
Call Billie Eilish. I'm a bad girl. Don't do all that. But I actually, can I get something wide off my chest? I'm going to say something real Caucasian. You love Hailee Steinfeld. Duh, of course. I'm an adult who watched Pitch Perfect 2. I have ears. Where was she on the track? Okay. No, you know who I love? Lola Kirk.
I mean, Lola Kirk, that is my... What? You are so... You were the only person in America who walks out of Sinners and you're like, don't play about my girl. Don't play about my girl. And it's Lola Kirk. And listen, I love Mistress of America as much as the next woman. But still, that's so crazy. I also love her little folk music that she posts on her Instagram. Me too. That's why I love her.
But that's not my top thought when I walk out of Sinners. No, not my top thought. My top thought is arm. And my second top thought is... Pussy. Other arm.
Oh. Oh. And that's being gay and being straight. My first thought was, oh, everybody's eating pussy here. Everybody.
We're on Google. What are you trying to say? I saw that tweet that was like, sinners is a movie for eaters. And I said, oh, it can't be. And I was like, oh, for sure. They're really, they said napkin in. No, fuck the napkin. Napkin is on it. I haven't felt like, sinners is so horny that it's like, it reminds me of WAP. Yeah. Get a bucket and a mop.
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Chapter 5: How do Hunter and Peyton analyze Michael B. Jordan’s dual roles in 'Sinners'?
I loved the score of the movie. Yeah. I felt like that scene felt very ho-tep-y. I didn't like it. I didn't need that. I think there were other maybe visual ways we could have played with that. This felt super on the nose with the voiceover that was happening, I think, at the same time of explaining.
No, the voiceover was at the very beginning. That kind of set the mood for how there are people who can live and conjure two separate realities at once.
I thought that it came back for some reason. Even if it didn't, though, I just felt like it really took me out of being present in a movie that I was already having so much fun with. Interesting. And I didn't... It didn't resonate with me. Interesting. It, like, annoyed me, in fact. Okay.
Wow. Geez. Sorry. Like, sit down. No, I love it. He's like, nope, Peyton. Relax. Just calm down. It's just a movie. Relax. No, I really liked that scene. Oh, really? I thought it was... I thought it went on for a little bit too long. Yeah. But I think it really... I don't know.
I think that Ryan Coogler has this way of like playing toward the cinema goer, but like also playing to like a populist end. And that he has like those, I think like David Fincher kind of has the same quality too. And Steven Soderbergh as well, where it's like you really, what a deft filmmaker who can make something that is incredibly entertaining, but also really thoughtful and artistic.
I thought that scene, it went on for a like it as like a thesis statement for the movie that is really about like straddling two worlds that happens with like the literal vampires also with like the actual racism And double consciousness of that. But I did. I think I felt how you were feeling with the post credit scene. Right. That one felt like, OK, we're putting a hat on top of a hat.
But also it was in like the it's not just OK, let me be clear that it wasn't just a scene itself. It was also the styling of both of those scenes. Like the wardrobe felt campy. It felt like there were other things you could have to indicate the 80s, like put them in that didn't feel too overtly performative.
Like something about it felt like, no, there's a way to nod to the 80s without doing like the classic specs and like her ponytail. I mean, Hayley was walking that walk, though, for sure. And but like, I don't know, that took me right back out of it again. I had so much. I haven't had this much fun yet, probably since Challengers in the movie.
And the things that something else that kind of took me out was when the I forgot her name, but the Asian mother was like, let him in. Like, let's rip. Oh, yeah. That felt rushed to me. But at the same time, I was like, well, we have a job to do, which is like fight some vampires. So like, I guess let's get to it. But it did kind of feel rushed. Rushed in random a little bit.
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Chapter 6: What themes and stylistic choices in 'Sinners' sparked differing opinions?
Well, yeah.
It was so good and people should have.
Question for the culture. When you were watching the pitch of the vampires being like, we could live in, like, a post-racial society if you guys just join us, were you kind of convinced? You would have gone outside. I would have gone outside. You would have gone outside. I seen Bella Swan. She looking good. She got thick after she turned. I said, maybe me too. I would have gone outside.
I was like, that sounds epic actually.
I'm so like, wow. That is so crazy of you. You would have taken the pitch. No, you would have absolutely tried to bring me outside and I'm feet planted in the word of the Lord. I'm saying no, no, no. I don't know. The times they was living in wasn't looking too great. I'm pulling on the full army of God to stay in that, to stay in that house, to stay in that juke joint.
You're vertical to his horizontal. How is that what you always think of? That's how I know you didn't grow up in the church. No. But I did really love the scene where that one guy looks like Forest Whitaker was like, invite me in. Invite me in. It's like, no. But even that scene, it's so campy.
Yeah. To be like, I was just in there. Come on, stop playing with me. Please. Like, that would be me, actually. That would be me to you. That really would be. Unconvincing.
I'm walking in everywhere first. I'm letting you walk in second and see what happens.
We go to Beyonce, you say, come on in, Peyton. Let's see what happens. No, I'm saying, why don't you come on in my car? Come on in my Lyft. I was convinced. They got me. And that's on being biracial. Yeah, for sure. For sure.
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Chapter 7: What is the true-crime case of Luigi Mangione and how does it relate to the episode?
Chapter 8: How does the episode preview the upcoming Met Gala and cultural discussions?
That's kind of bi of you, but I see that.
Interesting. I did really like that Ryan Coogler, I think it was on Democracy Now! where he had a chance to take the wind out of the conversation in Vulture, in Deadline, in Variety, in The Hollywood Reporter. All the conversation about how he's gotten this really novel deal where in 25 years he will regain ownership of the movie.
Because every news story about how well Cynarys is performing is with the caveat that, oh, but it's not profitable yet. And I liked his answer. My deal is not novel. People have gotten these deals before. And I've only been making franchises. I wanted to own something for myself. And I may not seek this for the next movie that I make, but I wanted it for this one. And I thought that was like,
Wow. He feels like hometown hero.
Shout out to Ryan, though. And also shout out to, I didn't know Hailee Steinfeld was black, by the way. You did? You knew your sister?
No, I don't know. But I feel like a lot of people, like, she's not a black woman. I'm like, but you don't remember the one drop, really? Where were you during AP U.S. history? Where were you during Jim Carreira? Like, yeah, if her, what did she say, her, like, grandparent, one of her grandparents was black, they would have considered her black back in the day. And I consider her black right now.
No one watched Imitation of Life. Hello? Passing? No one watched Passing. No one watched Passing.
Well, yeah.
It was so good and people should have.
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