Become a better communicator: Specific frameworks to improve your clarity, influence, and impact | Wes Kao (coach, entrepreneur, advisor)
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What is the #1 communication mistake leaders make and how can it be fixed?
I often see operators who explain things poorly and then are shocked and horrified when people are confused or there's skepticism, there's apathy. I'm a big proponent of asking myself if I'm not getting the reaction that I'm looking for, how might I be contributing? How could I explain this more clearly? How can I be more compelling? How can I anticipate any questions that they might have?
You are one of the best teachers of communication I've ever come across. I made a list of people's favorite tactics and frameworks and approaches that you teach in writing. Any tactics you can share for someone to be a little more concise.
I think the blast radius of a poorly written memo is way bigger than most people think. If you're just shooting off a message in a Slack channel with 15 other people and it's confusing, you didn't include information you should have included, there's gonna be a bunch of back and forth. Whereas if you just take another look at it, those 15 people would be off to the races.
You have an awesome framework called Moo.
Moo stands for most obvious objection. A lot of times we're surprised by the questions that we get, especially in meetings, we feel blindsided. When really, if you thought for even two minutes about what are obvious objections that I'm likely to get, you often immediately come up with what some of those things are. Are you gonna be able to anticipate every single objection? No. But can you anticipate the obvious ones? Absolutely.
Today, my guest is Wes Kao. Wes co-created the Alt NBA program with Seth Godin. She co-founded a company called Maven, which I often collaborate with, which makes it easy for people to host live cohort based courses. She recently left Maven to launch her own course on executive communication and influence. There's a quote that came to mind after I stopped recording this conversation with Wes by George Bernard Shaw. The single Biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. By the end of this podcast, if you listen to what Wes suggests, you will be a lot closer to becoming a world-class communicator. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.
Also, if you become a yearly subscriber of my newsletter, you get a year free of perplexity pro, superhuman, notion, linear, and granola. Check it out at lenny's newsletter.com. With that I bring you Wes KO. This episode is brought to you by WorkOS. If you're building a SaaS app, at some point your customers will start asking for enterprise features, like SAML authentication and skim provisioning. That's where WorkOS comes in, making it fast and painless to add enterprise features to your app. Their APIs are easy to understand so that you can ship quickly and get back to building other features. Today, hundreds of companies are already powered. By WorkOS, including ones you probably know, like Vercel, Webflow, and Loom.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the #1 communication mistake leaders make and how can it be fixed?
0:00–15:20
2
How does the “sales then logistics” framework boost buy‑in?
15:20–27:09
3
What is the MOO (Most Obvious Objection) framework and how do you use it?
27:09–39:27
4
How can you become more concise without losing meaning?
39:27–52:57
5
What is signposting and why does it improve readability?
52:57–1:06:27
6
How can you manage up effectively and earn trust?
1:06:27–1:17:03
7
What is the CDAF (Comprehension‑Excitement‑De‑risk‑Align‑Feedback) framework for delegating?
1:17:03–1:27:44
8
How can AI tools like Claude help you communicate better?
1:27:44–1:33:34
Speakers
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