Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”)
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Why treat a job search like product development and focus on a narrow, clear target?
When you're looking for a job, you need a spear and not an act. What happens when we're building a product? Same thing, right? We want this product to be for everyone. But we've learned with product market fit that doesn't work. We need a narrow, clear focus.
How did you realize this is a really powerful method versus the way people normally look for jobs?
While it's hard to figure out your candidate market fit, it's also a relief to know it's not about you. So what I ask people to do is I ask them to think about what they want and what they don't want. Now, you might not think that that's a radical step, Lenny, but most people don't do that. When they get laid off, they spray and pray.
This is very much like a product person thinks about new products. There's no INT.
Well, there is an iron village. And the iron village is that when you start to interview and negotiate, you've got to be in charge. I want you to play to win, not not to lose.
Is there anything else that you think might be helpful to people looking for a job? If someone did this, it would blow my mind. I would hire them on the spot. Today, my guest is Phil Terry. Phil is the author of Never Search Alone, which I've seen so many people reference as the most impactful thing they read for helping them find a job. Once you listen to this episode, you'll see why. Prior to this book, Phil was on the founding team of the first company that Amazon acquired back in the 90s, and then was CEO of the pioneering product and customer experience consulting firm Creative Good for over 15 years, where Phil and the team Had companies like Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, and hundreds of other companies as customers.
Phil also co-authored Customers Included, has written articles for the Harvard Business Review, and has delivered more than 500 keynotes to companies like Apple and Microsoft. This episode is for anyone struggling to find a job or unhappy in the job that they are in. I promise you the time you put into listening to this episode will help you find a job that you love. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube. It's the best way to avoid missing future episodes and it helps the podcast tremendously. With that, I bring you Phil Terry. Phil, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.
Oh, what a pleasure. I'm such a fan of yours, Lenny. I'm thrilled to
be here. Thank you. I'm a huge fan of yours and I think uh by the end of this I'll be an even bigger fan of yours. What I'm hoping that we can do in our chat today is to help people who are struggling to find a job. And especially struggling to find a job they love, actually find that job with actual tips that they can use today in this week. How does that how does that feel to you?
That's great. We have some practical time-tested stuff that I've developed over the last twenty-five years with leaders in Silicon Valley, especially in the product community. We've really brought a product lens to reinventing the job, Surge Lenny.
This is a perfect van diagram of of topics then. Yes. Um There's a lot of ways I can approach this. I want to start with a question about something that you run, something that you created, something that has had a lot of impact on a lot of people, job search councils. What is a job search council? It's a support group of
six to eight job seekers, right? So product people and but it it's not just for product people, but the product community really owns this. It comes out of the product community. And what they do is they commit to being with each other, to supporting each other. go through the process of looking for a job and figuring out some of the and and I lay out a methodology how to figure out your candidate market fit. one of the big concepts in the book, as well as how to play to win, not not to lose. You know what I mean? People are scared in the job search. Th here here's the thing, Lenny, that people really have a hard time Really have a hard time believing. Everyone. I mean everyone.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
Why treat a job search like product development and focus on a narrow, clear target?
0:00–9:05
2
What is a job‑search council and how does it work?
9:05–16:58
3
How do you define and refine your candidate‑market fit?
16:58–24:58
4
What is a job mission with OKRs and how can it improve interviews and negotiations?
24:58–57:32
5
How can counter‑intuitive negotiation tactics improve my job offer?
57:32–1:15:20
6
Why is asking for help considered a strength rather than a weakness?
1:15:20–1:41:58
7
What are job‑search councils and how do they support candidates?
1:41:58–1:49:27
8
What immediate actions can listeners take this week to boost their job search?
1:49:27–1:51:26
Speakers
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