Lex Fridman Podcast
#337 – Destiny: Politics, Free Speech, Controversy, Sex, War, and Relationships
11 Nov 2022
Steven Bonnell, aka Destiny, is a progressive political commentator and a live streamer on YouTube. Melina Goransson is a live streamer on Twitch. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - True Classic Tees: https://trueclassictees.com/lex and use code LEX to get 25% off - Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lex to get 1 month of fish oil - MasterClass: https://masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off - Blinkist: https://blinkist.com/lex to get 25% off premium EPISODE LINKS: Destiny's YouTube: https://youtube.com/destiny Destiny's Subreddit: https://reddit.com/r/Destiny Destiny's Website: https://destiny.gg Destiny's Instagram: https://instagram.com/destiny Melina's Twitch: https://twitch.tv/melina Melina's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melina.goransson Melina's Twitter: https://twitter.com/melinagoranson PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (07:55) - Politics and debates (24:17) - War in Ukraine (37:26) - Trans athletics (40:35) - AI (53:18) - Lowest point in Destiny's life (1:13:29) - Hate speech and language (1:49:51) - Misogyny (2:05:02) - Big government and institutions (2:44:46) - Hasan and Vaush (3:00:55) - Joe Biden (3:11:45) - Donald Trump (3:17:45) - Free speech (3:20:38) - Melina joins the conversation (3:23:52) - Melina and Destiny (3:34:23) - Open relationship (3:41:45) - Red pill community (3:52:00) - Sex body count (4:04:14) - Advice for young people
Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
The following is a conversation with Stephen Bunnell, also known online as Destiny. He's a video game streamer and political commentator, one of the early pioneers of both live streaming in general and live streamed political debate and discourse. Politically, he is a progressive, identifying as either left or far left, depending on your perspective.
There are many reasons I wanted to talk to Stephen. First, I just talked to Ben Shapiro, and many people have told me that Stephen is the Ben Shapiro of the left in terms of political perspective and exceptional debate skills. Second reason is he skillfully defends some nuanced, non-standard views.
at the same time being pro-establishment, pro-institutions, and pro-Biden, while also being pro-capitalism and pro-free speech. Third reason is he has been there at the beginning and throughout the meteoric rise of the video game live streaming community.
In some mainstream circles, this community is not taken seriously, perhaps because of its demographic distribution skewing young, or perhaps because of the sometimes harsh style of communication. But I think this community should be taken seriously and shown respect. Millions of young minds tune into live streams like Destiny's to question and to try to understand what is going on with the world.
often exploring challenging, even controversial ideas. The language is sometimes harsher and the humor sometimes meaner than I would prefer. But I, Grandpa Lex, put on my rain boots and went into the beautiful chaotic muck of online discourse and have so far survived to tell the tale with a smile and even more love in my heart than before.
On top of all this, we were lucky to have Melina Goranson, a popular streamer and world traveler, join us at the end of the conversation. You can check out her channel on twitch.tv slash Melina, and you can check out Stephen's channel on youtube.com slash Destiny. And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description. It's the best way to support this podcast.
We got True Classic Tees for shirts, Athletic Greens for nutrition, Masterclass for learning, and Blinkist for nonfiction. Choose wisely, my friends. And now on to the full ad reads. As always, there's no ads in the middle. I try to make this interesting, but if you skip them, please still check out our sponsors. I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too.
This show is brought to you by a thing that I'm currently wearing as I'm doing this very ad read. It's called True Classic Tees. High quality, soft, slim fitted t-shirts for men. They're definitely slim fitted currently because I just ate a lot and I drank two cappuccinos, venti cappuccinos from Starbucks. because I didn't sleep much last night and I had a lot to get done today.
And so I was feeling really good. I'm still feeling really good. And I'm celebrating that by even more caffeine. So they're definitely slim fit. Extra slim fit. I wore large and they feel good. They look good. I mean, there's nothing better in this world than a great fitting, comfortable, sexy t-shirt. Okay, there might be a couple of other things, but a t-shirt is pretty nice.
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Chapter 2: How did Destiny's political views evolve over time?
It's called True Classic Tees. Like I said, go to trueclassic.com and enter code Lex to get 25% off. Free shipping included on purchases over $100. 100% risk-free guarantee with a 30-day return policy. True classic. When you look good, you feel good. I had to read that. They don't tell me to read that, but that's what it says on their website. So when you look good, you feel good.
Chapter 3: What were the lowest points in Destiny's life?
This show is brought to you by Athletic Greens and it's AG1 drink that I drink twice a day. It takes care of all my nutritional needs for all the crazy fasting, keto diet, carnivore diet, whatever diet I do. If I'm traveling, if I'm stressed, if I'm sleep deprived, all the chaos that's going on in life. By the way, I'm not complaining. Chaos in life is beautiful.
but I try to do anything I can that's easy to do to take care of my body. I do try to get sleep. I do try to make sure I have a bed that I'm super comfortable with. I try to make sure I get enough electrolytes, enough vitamins. The vitamin part is taken care of by Athletic Greens. Plus, it's delicious.
I mean, there's a zen aspect of just slowing down life and enjoying a nice drink of Athletic Greens. It just puts me back to a place where all the stress of life disappears, and I return to a place of calm. Anyway, they'll give you one month's supply of fish oil when you sign up at athleticgreens.com. These reads are getting increasingly more ridiculous, and I love it.
This show is also brought to you by Masterclass. $180 a year gets you an all-access pass to watch courses from the best people in the world at the coolest stuff in the world. So we got Chris Hadfield. I mean, the list is ridiculous.
I hope to talk to a bunch of them on the podcast, but I'll never be able to have such a dense and sexy presentation of their insights on a podcast as Masterclass achieves in these classes. I mean, it's just not comparable. A podcast is a fun chat. This is an intense, also fun, educational experience.
So Chris Hadfield, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Will Wright, Carlos Santana, Gary Kasparov, Daniel Negrano, Neil Gaiman, Martin Scorsese, Tony Hawk, Jane Good. It just goes on and on. It never stops. It's really, really, really worth it. I recommend it. Check it out. Get unlimited access to every Masterclass and get 15% off an annual membership at masterclass.com.
This show is also brought to you by Blinkist, my favorite app for learning new things. They take key ideas from thousands of nonfiction books and condense them down into 15 minutes that you can read or listen to. And sometimes the new things I learn are from books I've already read, sometimes multiple times. The insights they pull out really take a fresh perspective.
Not in all cases, but in many cases, a fresh perspective on books I've already read. Obviously, if I haven't read the book, this is a great way to pick which nonfiction books you should read.
Or if you're never going to get a chance to read those books, it's a nice way to get caught up in case it's brought up in conversation and you're not completely lost out at sea like a lonely sailor wishing he could be home with family. This is your way. This is the way to return back to family. Come along with me, dear sailor. You can claim a special offer for savings at Blinkist.com slash Lex.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of hate speech and language in online communities?
i am okay with every single nazi being negatively affected by that because that category intrinsically calls upon at some level of moral condemnation for me right whereas like if i'm out there i try not to do like image related jokes right i don't want to call you like oh you're a fat fucking loser because there's a lot of people that are fat that are overweight where i don't want them to feel bad i don't want them i'm not trying to call you out or like insult you so there's like a lot of um you say cost benefit i look at like a lot of collateral damage from a word like that where there's no purpose in doing that
Um, so certain words are easy to get rid of. They're off the table, right? F slur. Um, and we're like, like, these are not words that you call people because you're, there's so much collateral. It's not worth it. We've got some words where it's like, if you have some form of like mental thing, it is a bad thing.
You're not a bad person, but just using that word could feel like a collateral damage to those people. Um, and then there's other categories of words. So like, if I say that, like, um, this person is like, they're, it's a stupid fucking Republican, right? There's probably some Republicans that, um,
aren't dumb that i don't want to feel called out by that like are those types of phrases that you think should be completely removed as well or i'm kind of curious so this completely removed just so we're clear yeah i'm not referring to censorship oh no i'm not even talking about i'm just just personally like emotionally like removed is the wrong word though like i care about like i'm not trying to listen to people on the internet saying like you
I'm trying to look to your mind and heart. And the reason we're talking today is you're betraying your gift. You're better than this. You think it's indicative of like a more flippant thought process where it's like the only way you can say that word is if you're ignoring the hurt and suffering of those people.
And if you're somebody that says those people, you're ignoring the, the state of language. Cause I think you're getting to the point. Cause it's not about a single word. It's about like a, it's music. And I just feel like there is a strong note. It's a, it's a strong note that ruins the melody. Gotcha. And I don't think I can say, you know, you shouldn't use the R word or whatever.
I'm just speaking to... I'm just listening to music and reviewing the final result. It's not necessarily... Because maybe one use of the R word strategically or part of an actual, like... Or when you've built up a camaraderie that's sandwiched in some love, but then you try to reveal their... Because you're talking about a lot of... There's a bunch of drama.
You have friends with whom you're worrying and stuff, and they're all a little bit beautifully insane. And you've said that you are becoming more and more insane. It's beautiful to watch. It's the human condition laid before us. Wonderful. And some of that is swearing and so on. So it's a tricky thing. But... The whole skill of discourse, just like it is with dark humor, is walking that line.
I just feel like it's overuse of the R word. And I don't want to die on that ground because I don't think it's that representative. There's certain things like that. It feels like it ruins the music.
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Chapter 5: How can we address misogyny in the streaming community?
And I don't, you know, it's the same like a dumb Republican or a dumb Democrat. I don't. Yeah, that ruins it too a little bit. Depends on how you use it. You can be lazy with that. You know, like even overuse of the word, I think bots is what's used for people who don't think or something. I don't actually know the definition. I'm offended on behalf of robots. That might be a compliment soon.
Right, exactly. But I guess bot means you don't think. Yeah, you're like an NPC. You just copy, paste, and balance. Again, I'm a fan on behalf of NPCs. I count myself as one. But there's a sense if you say bots too much, that you're just dismissing people. Like everything I say is right. And anyone that disagrees with me is a bot. That's lazy too. Sometimes it's funny. Sometimes it's effective.
Basically saying a lot of people in the mainstream media or something like that are bots. Okay. That's a little bit of that is effective, but too much, it becomes ineffective. And I'm trying to speak to that. And I'm just, the reason we're highlighting clear examples, like the N word, Joe Rogan had to contend with that. I think it's ineffective. It makes you less effective at discourse.
But like you've talked about many times, language is a tricky one. It's always hard because you talk about constructing a melody. There's not one melody that sounds good to everyone. But there are probably certain notes that if you got rid of them, everybody's still going to like it about as much and you don't really lose anything.
There's a whole other part of an audience that might be more willing to listen, of course. Yeah. And it's not about losing the magic of that melody. You don't want to be vanilla. I just feel like there's stuff that doesn't need to be there. Yeah, for sure.
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Chapter 6: What is the relationship between language, identity, and societal norms?
It's fat. But then again, the other thing that people should understand that might be listening to this, you're streaming many hours a day for many years. I don't know, it's 11 or 12, I think. It started in 2010. And so one of the things that people can do is just clip out anything. You're going through the full human experience of emotion, anger, fear, frustration, all of it.
So of course there's going to be moments when you're not the best version of yourself. Anything else to say about the language? It's complicated. I'm still always trying to figure it out. There are opinions that I have that have changed throughout the years.
It's possible that the R word has always been the next one on the chopping block that we're all kind of looking at, but people are always worried about that treadmill. But it's possible in a year or two I'll have a different view on it or I'll have changed away some of the words I use. It's always like a work in progress.
There's always different communities that feel different ways about different words. Yeah, but do you acknowledge that there's people out there that are never going to talk to you? they're never going to think of you as a good man because you used the N word with a hard R publicly. In the past?
I mean, yeah, those people exist, but I mean, there are some people that are beyond my reach, which I'm okay with. There's going to be some people because of things that have been involved, or even ideas that I have now that might make them beyond my reach. Something you said earlier is very true.
I think the goal is to identify what are the elements that you can cut out that aren't integral to your message, but could be alienating to more people. And those are probably the things that you identify. But I think that you can get lost in yourself or lost in the internet or lost in the outside of yourself if you're trying to appeal to every single person.
That's just never going to be the case. And for, I actually, I like that I've had the journey that I've had on the internet that you can find me saying and defending a lot of insane stuff 10 years ago, because I think it shows like a level of progress.
And I think I do get a lot of respect and buy-in to certain communities where it's like, I'm not just some random dude telling you that like, oh, you shouldn't say, you know, the F word or the N word. Like I'm a guy that's been there, that's done it, that's defended it. And you can see my whole past, my whole history is laid bare for you to watch every, you know, thousands of hours of it.
But I can show that like there's growth and evolution and change that can happen in a person, so. Yeah, and you're honest about that growth. It's a tricky thing because people just bring up stuff from your past. For sure. I hope we figure out as a civilization a mechanism to clearly say this was me two years ago. This was me five years ago. I'm a different person.
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Chapter 7: What are the challenges of navigating an open relationship?
I don't think so in that conversation. Especially given that like at that point, because this is still 2018 or 20, this might be 2019. I'm still known at that point as being very aggressive towards conservatives or alt-righters. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. And with lefties is what I call them. I think I'm being very gentle. Like my conversation with conservatives is like, you're a fuck. You're so dumb.
That's how I'm doing it. So with him, I'm like, well, don't you think that this is a little bit of an inconsistent presentation? I feel like I'm being nice. But I always leave it to the audience. They can go and watch that Kamala Harris video, Destiny of a Son, if they think that I was being a dickhead. But a lot of people watching said I was being pretty gentle, so.
Well, let me say, as a new fan of this space, I hope you guys make up and I hope you guys fight it out in the space of discourse and ideas. Me too. And also with empathy, understanding what the strength of the other person is, what their buttons are. And, you know, there's like an unspoken rule that you don't press the buttons that you need to.
Unless you're doing it mutually and it's fun because, you know, it's fun to piss each other off. Yeah, of course. That's kind of like what friends do. You don't cross a certain line. But then other than that, you fight it out. Okay, let's step back. One other super interesting aspect of your worldview is you're a big supporter of Biden. Can you explain what you love about Biden?
Do you love Biden more than Sean Carroll or less? Sean Carroll is just like in another world of... Gotcha. Admiration. I feel like I'm culturally appropriating you by saying gotcha now. But it's so convenient. It's an easy word. Now we're on the same wavelength, okay? We're synchronizing.
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Chapter 8: How do Melina and Destiny manage feelings of jealousy?
That's good. I mean, it is really interesting because even people that support Biden usually don't say they love Biden. they don't support it strongly. Ideologically, philosophically, the reason why I like Biden is because he's really committed to this bringing the left and right together, which is something we so desperately need in the country.
And his statements over and over again of like, I'm not the Democrat president or the Republican president, I'm the president of the United States. His desire to bring Republicans together to work on things like the infrastructure bill, that's So incredibly needed. And I have a huge amount of respect and admiration for him for trying to push through on that message.
Do you think then it's unfortunate that he made that comment about MAGA? MAGA Republicans? Yeah. I mean, I forget what the comment was, but MAGA Republicans are not good people kind of thing. I watched the full video and he's right. There is this toxic aspect and it's hard to call out because they're always going to spend like, oh, he hates our Republicans. He's not.
If you watch the quote, he's very specifically calling out like this group of people that think that the election was fraudulent. Is it clear? That's what he meant by- We can bring it up.
All right.
This is- Oh no. Uh-oh. But I remember watching it on stream. It was like, if he said it, yeah, that's bad. You can probably like YouTube MAGA Republicans Biden. But like, it feels like it's pretty clear. He's talking about the people that are like election denying.
TOO MUCH OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY TODAY IS NOT NORMAL. DONALD TRUMP AND THE MAGA REPUBLICANS REPRESENT AN EXTREMISM THAT THREATENS THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF OUR REPUBLIC. NOW, I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR, VERY CLEAR UP FRONT. NOT EVERY REPUBLICAN, NOT EVEN THE MAJORITY REPUBLICANS ARE MAGA REPUBLICANS. NOT EVERY REPUBLICAN EMBRACES THEIR EXTREME IDEOLOGY.
I know because I've been able to work with these mainstream Republicans. But there's no question that the Republican Party today is dominated, driven and intimidated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans. And that is a threat to this country.
I disagree with that, man. He didn't clearly say extremist ideology. He didn't say the people that doubt the validity of the election. I mean, that's Donald Trump. No, but there's... That's all the candidates that Donald Trump is supporting. How many, what is it, like 40, 50, how many candidates right now that are mega candidates are...
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