Lex Fridman Podcast
#366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love
21 Mar 2023
Dr. Shannon Curry is a clinical and forensic psychologist who conducts research, therapy, and clinical evaluation pertaining to trauma, violence, and relationships. She testified in the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Factor: https://factormeals.com/lex50 and use code lex50 to get 50% off your first box - BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off - House of Macadamias: https://houseofmacadamias.com/lex and use code LEX to get 20% off your first order EPISODE LINKS: Shannon's Instagram: https://instagram.com/currypsychgroup Curry Psychology Group: https://currypsychology.com/ PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (05:41) - Starting a relationship (09:40) - Couples therapy (16:57) - Why relationships fail (24:15) - Drama in relationships (29:42) - Success in relationships (36:06) - Dating (44:42) - Sex (46:36) - Cheating (55:37) - Polyamory (57:28) - Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial (1:26:06) - Forensic psychology (1:36:16) - PTSD (1:45:51) - Advice for young people (1:48:42) - Love
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The following is a conversation with Shannon Curry, a clinical and forensic psychologist who conducts research, therapy, and psychological evaluations pertaining to trauma, violence, and relationships. She received worldwide attention in April of last year by giving a lengthy televised testimony on her psychological evaluation of Amber Heard during the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard trial.
I found her testimony to be an eloquent description of complex psychological concepts and evaluation procedures. So I reached out for a chat. In person, she was brilliant, funny, thoughtful, and truly kind.
Chapter 2: What insights does Shannon Curry provide on starting a relationship?
I really, really enjoyed this conversation. And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description. It's the best way to support this podcast.
Chapter 3: How can couples therapy improve relationships?
We got Factor for nutritious and delicious pre-made meals, BetterHelp for mental health, and House of Macadamias for delicious snacks. Choose wisely, my friends. Also, if you want to work with our team, we're always hiring. Go to lexfriedman.com slash hiring. And now onto the full ad reads. As always, no ads in the middle.
I try to make this interesting, but if you must skip them, friends, please still check out our sponsors.
Chapter 4: What are the common reasons relationships fail?
I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too. This show is brought to you by a new sponsor, a delicious sponsor called Factor. It's a ready-to-eat meal kit service that delivers nutritious and delicious meals straight to your door. That phrase is a ridiculous phrase, but that is what it does. So I use it mostly for my kind of diet, but it supports all kinds of diets.
So I'm mostly keto, and they have a bunch of amazing keto meals that center somewhere around like 500 calories. First of all, they're delicious in the variety they provide.
Chapter 5: How does drama impact relationships?
For the keto stuff, I keep the carbs low. It's really, really delicious. And the variety it provides makes it so that I don't have to think about anything and I can enjoy, at an affordable price, deliciousness in my life that's varied throughout the week and I still keep to a low carb count. This is probably the most efficient, the most delicious, the most affordable way to have variety
of foods on a keto diet and all kinds of other sort of quote unquote smart diets that they have. Protein plus whatever, vegan plus veggie, all that kind of stuff.
Chapter 6: What factors contribute to success in relationships?
Get Factor and enjoy clean eating without the hassle. Go to factormeals.com slash Lex50 and use code Lex50 to get 50% off your first box. That's factormeals.com slash Lex50 and use code Lex50. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp, spelled H-E-L-P, help. Obviously, this is a good episode for BetterHelp to sponsor because Shannon is a great psychologist.
I learned a lot from her testimony, from our on and off the mic conversations, from her interviews. She's so eloquent and clear in explaining some pretty complicated psychological concepts because there's a lot of gray area in how you identify the different disorders, the different
things that might be right and wrong with our minds and exploring that area, all the gray areas within that with clarity that the terms aid in understanding versus limit you by putting you into a particular kind of bucket and exploring all that kind of stuff, especially in the context of relationships is brilliant.
She, of course, does all kinds of therapy and reviews both for PTSD, for couples therapy, all that kind of stuff. And it just shows that lifelong taking seriously your mental health with partners, your mental health alone is really important through the act of talking it out with licensed professionals. And that's what BetterHelp provides and makes super easy.
Check them out at betterhelp.com slash Lex and save on your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash Lex. This show is also brought to you by House of Macadamias, a company that ships delicious, high-quality and healthy macadamia nuts and macadamia nut-based snacks directly to your door.
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Chapter 7: What role does sex play in maintaining a healthy relationship?
Small portions, healthy, delicious. I don't just eat them myself.
Chapter 8: What are the psychological dynamics behind infidelity?
I also share it with guests, with friends when they come over. I think it serves as a good icebreaker. There's something about human beings that just... Love connecting over some food. That's what I've been using it for. But let's be honest, actually.
Most of what I've been using it for, sitting on the couch, feeling content, appreciating the seconds as they take by, and putting some macadamia nuts in my mouth. Yes, I said it, friends. It's the only nut rich in omega-7. So there's a bunch of reasons that it's healthy for you. There's all other kinds of positive stuff I could say about it, besides it being delicious, that it's healthy.
But you should try it for yourself. Go to houseofmacadamias.com to get 20% off your order for every order, not just the first. The listeners, that's you, will also get a four-ounce bag of macadamias when you order three or more boxes, as you should. of any macadamia product. That's houseofmacadamias.com slash lex. This is the Lex Friedman Podcast.
To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Shannon Curry. Charles Bukowski said that love is a fog that burns away with the first daylight of reality. I love that quote. Do you think romantic love fades away in this way?
Bukowski.
Does it have to fade?
The truth is that you have all of these chemicals pumping through your body. You're essentially high on heroin in the beginning of a romance. And you're going to have these rose-colored glasses on. Everything your partner does is magical. But really, it's the novelty. It's just like going on a vacation. You're fully present.
You're just attuned to the magic of another human being moment to moment. And then on top of that, you're just flooded with dopamine. So you're high on drugs. And we can't go on like that. You will die if you are using these kinds of chemicals all the time, all day long. So eventually, our bodies are sort of made to dial it down. We've made it. I mean, we're evolutionary beings.
We are doing the same thing we did 200,000 years ago to find a mate, procreate, spend enough time with each other that we have sex a whole bunch of times and make babies. Now we've changed the rules of the game. We're living, you know, almost until we're 100 years old in some cases. We're making these marriage commitments that last half a century. And we're expecting it to be all because of love.
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