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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Get in touch on WhatsApp 087 484 888. Yes, you're very welcome back. You can email as well, lifeline at rte.ie. And Patrick Hunt is on the line. Patrick, what can you tell me about this book or booklet that's been delivered to every school in Ireland, apparently?
Thanks very much for having me on. Yeah, so last week, every school in the country, as far as I know, has received two copies of this new book titled Sick of Spruce, The Amazing Timber Tree. So the book basically is written from the perspective of a sick of spruce tree and how it goes through the life cycle of being grown, harvested and then being used to create the beams of a school building.
Then it goes through a situation where it's reused and repurposed as the school is expanded and updated And then eventually it goes on then to be used, I suppose, as material furniture making and that.
But the way the book's written, it presents the Sitka spruce as this amazing tree and it talks about, in very rosy pictures and colourful language, how the tree is sort of good for wildlife as a forestry tree.
One of the quotes I would probably take from the book is a thing that says, the whole woodland flourishes in a constant motion as the forest continues to grow timber for the built environment. And yeah, while we do need timber, we do need productive timber and thick as spruce can be part of that, I do feel that the book is quite unbalanced.
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Chapter 2: What is the controversy surrounding the 'Sick of Spruce' book sent to schools?
It almost feels like a pamphlet from industry that's been forced on teachers and pupils, which is quite unfair. And if there are teachers and pupils driving home today in their cars, just to make people aware that don't just read the book and take it at face value. Really think about, you know, whether or not this tree is something we want more of in the country.
The book has been sponsored by industry. So Irish Timber Council, the Society of Irish Forestry and SEEFA, which is the Social Economic Environmental Forestry Association. which has a vested interest in pushing for more Sitka spruce plantations. So at the moment, 50% of all the trees planted in this country are Sitka spruce, 340,000 hectares of the stuff, and they're pushing for more and more.
And if you've ever been for a walk in one of these woodlands, they're effectively dead zones. I mean, and it seems unfair that this would be presented as a child's book, as this rosy child's book. And, you know, I just wanted to draw attention to this...
Chapter 3: How does the book portray Sitka spruce and its ecological benefits?
within the school system, even for parents listening to this.
So, Patrick, is your issue with the industry in this country, you know, that CICTA has grown for the timber industry, is it with the nature of the book or the fact that the book is going into schools?
Well, the fact that what I'd like to know, there's lots of things. Yeah, I mean, first of all, I'd like to know, did the Department of Education know that this book was being sent out? Possibly they didn't because anyone can send something to school.
No, in fairness, we don't think they did. And you mentioned the different groups behind it. I mean, they, like anybody, are entitled to post things to schools. Now, schools are perfectly entitled, school principals or whoever opens the letters are perfectly entitled to chuck these in the bin or the recycling afterwards.
Some of them, I assume, will end up in school libraries and will be read as well.
And I feel... I just feel that, you know, if I saw this book coming in through the post box and I was a school teacher, I'd look at it and go, oh, that's a lovely book. There's a picture of a squirrel on the front of it. It looks very nature friendly. You mightn't think about it too much.
You might just put it on the staff table, which is where I found it myself on Friday and again in the school that I'm in today. And you'd assume that it's an OK book to read, but there's more going on behind this book, I suppose. And I feel like, you know, it is very misrepresenting the ecological impacts that the sicker spruce plantations have on the soil, like the acidified soil.
And yes, we do need Sitka spruce and other evergreens. You know, we need timber productive trees. But I think what we need to do is think about how we integrate them with native species like Scots pine and birch and other species that, you know, can grow and produce productive timber. And we also need to think about where we site these Sitka spruce plantations.
So they're often planted on bogs because they're the only tree that will grow in some soil conditions.
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Chapter 4: What criticisms does Patrick Hunt have about the book's perspective?
Whatever you think about the points you make, you might agree with all of them.
While he was minister, yeah. He was minister at the time it would have been written, so yeah.
Eoghan Daltoon is on the line as well. Sorry, Patrick, you stay with us. Don't go anywhere. But Eoghan Daltoon is on the line. Eoghan, what do you think about this book ending up on the shelves of primary school libraries?
I think it's outrageous industry propaganda. There are so many falsehoods contained. I watched the video And there are so many falsehoods in there that it's hard to know where to start. I can't agree more. I couldn't agree more with Patrick there. He nails it.
It's just the whole thing is packaged in such a way as to be attractive to children and to have this kind of very lovely soundtrack running throughout that's very kind of evocative and uplifting.
And there's all of this kind of language liberally sprinkled through the whole thing, where you hear birds singing and streams kind of gurgling, and they talk about the nature that's all around in these places, and they describe Sitka plantations as a natural ecosystem. Whereas, as Patrick said, if you go into one of these places, they're just they're completely dead.
You know, Sitka plantations, there is nothing there.
It should be said, again, for people who haven't seen the book, haven't got their hands on it or listened to it. The overwhelming majority of the book is about the construction industry, really. kind of the forestry, you know, what happens after. But your issue is with the opening passages, really, is it? Where they describe life in the forest.
Yeah. And then the ending. So it starts and finishes with kind of birdsong.
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Chapter 5: What role do industry groups play in promoting Sitka spruce?
And it talks about, for example, we need to look after the biodiversity, the plants and animals that call it home. Again, almost nothing will call these places home. There are a few species that will use them because we have so little natural forest left in Ireland, but they use them simply as cover. There's nothing much else for them in there. There's nothing for them to eat.
They're dark, silent, empty dead zones, essentially. And the other thing I take issue with about this video is that it repeatedly states that these Sitka plantations are good for the climate when they most emphatically are not. And Michael Healy-Ray, who wrote the foreword, there was recently controversy surrounding him when he was minister because he was proposing that Sitka be planted on peat
And Peter Thorne, professor of climate change at Maynooth University, called that suggestion, quote, about the dumbest thing we could do regarding climate action. You know, it really is, it's somewhere, I would put it somewhere in the middle between misinformation and disinformation.
But I guess Michael Healy-Ray was suggesting it just as a way of using underutilised land to service an important industry. The timber industry is an important industry, isn't it? You know, we do need it for building stuff.
Absolutely, we need timber, but we also, it is possible to produce timber without destroying and driving out nature at the same time, which is what these places do. And we need to be very clear about that.
Dennis Logan is on the line as well. Dennis, do we need all of these plantations?
Well, I think we do. From a number of points of view, because economically it makes great sense. I'm reading that we can grow, it can grow three times faster here than it can in Scandinavia. And every single house that's being built in the country needs Sitka spruce in its construction.
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Chapter 6: What are the ecological impacts of Sitka spruce plantations?
And I wouldn't agree that it doesn't support any wildlife. The last time I ever heard a cuckoo was about five or six years ago on the slopes of Slevenir in Leitrim in a spruce plantation. And also, Sitka spruce plantations... Roads are good to facilitate the forestry industry, but those roads are also used by walkers and people enjoying themselves.
And so they're a great asset to the nation, I think.
But what about setting aside the value of the... this particular plan to the forestry industry. What about the idea, though, of all of this being put into a nice kind of booklet for kids and sent to primary schools? That's a bit weird, isn't it?
Well, I don't think it's one bit weird because I think there's nothing wrong with presenting children with the facts.
But the fact, when you say the facts, I'm no expert, but maybe you are, but the picture on the cover of the book are red squirrels up a sickle spruce tree. Do many red squirrels live in sickle forests?
Yes, well, that's what I'm reading. It supports red squirrels.
Patrick, you wanted to jump in there. Do red squirrels live in citrus forests?
They do, they do, because they eat the seeds from the cones. And if you're in a forest, the citrus plantation, it benefits some species, like you will get crossbills. and a few other species that benefit from the cones, like, say, the goldcrest, Ireland's smallest bird, and that type of thing.
But if you were to compare the number of species between that and a broadleaf forest, it would be far fewer, you know, far fewer birds, far fewer mammals. It's much more diverse in a mixed species forest.
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