Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0818 715 815. This is Live Line on RTÉ Radio 1. Sponsored by Harry Currie. Refresh your home this spring with new curtains from Harry Currie. Explore our vast, stylish collection now at harrycurrie.com.
Yes, good afternoon. You are very welcome to LiveLine. 51551 is the number for your text. You can reach me on email, LiveLine at rte.ie or as always, give me a call on 0818 715 815. You will no doubt at this stage be well aware of the story of that 11-year-old who got their hands on a firearm that they found in a bush in Ballymun yesterday. They discharged the weapon and remarkably, nobody was...
and nobody was hurt, but it has shone a light again on issues around criminality, right down to antisocial behaviour, not just in Ballymun, but in deprived areas of this country, right across the land. Rebecca is on the line. Rebecca, thanks a million for chatting to us. You live near where this gun was actually found, is that right?
Yeah, very near where it was found. Yeah, yeah. Were you shot? Absolutely. Shocked is not the word, but not surprised considering what's going on in Ballymun.
What's going on in Ballymun?
Ballymun is the new Beirut and has been for several years. I know that's been a bit dramatic, but in fairness, that is exactly what's going on. It's been forgotten about. It hasn't been developed. I don't know if you've been in Ballymun recently, but it's not looking the best
very little shots, no amenities and then what happened yesterday is a prime example of how it's been forgotten and there's nothing being done about it because that was quite serious and look, it won't be the first, it's not the first time something like this has happened and it won't be the last because nothing's been done.
So Rebecca, paint a picture for me now, for people who may be
are listening to this and they might drive through Ballymun a couple of times a year going in and out to Croke Park or something like that or visiting relatives and their experience of it will just be driving down along the Ballymun Road through a lot of what is nice, relatively nice-looking developments on either side, you know, past the pool or the New Garda station and right down towards Glasnevin and into town.
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Chapter 2: What incident sparked the discussion about criminality in Ireland?
It's just not being developed. I think it's a lot to do with the way people bring up their kids. What's in the cat is in the kitten, as they say. Monkey see, monkey do. That's what their parents are doing. Their kids are going to do it. Be antisocial. Drugs. It's everywhere. It's rife in the area. As I said, you might see these nice buildings that have gone up, but
What actually is in Ballymun apart from housing estates and apartments does not really hold up. You drive two minutes down the road into Glastonheaven and that's like a different world. But not great in Ballymun at all.
But what's in Glastonheaven that's not in Ballymun?
Civilisation. Proper people. Decent people. I'm sure there's parts of Glastonheaven that are not great too but it's in a, it's, for some, for an area that's so close to beside each other, it's like two different worlds. There's just, there's no, it's just Ballymuns that's been forgotten about. It's just, it's just so underdeveloped. And there's just, you know, people need to cop on.
It's not, as I said, it's not the police, it's not the Gardaí's fault, it's the, it's a lot to do with the people.
And, the open smoking of weed, how long has that been? On some level, maybe it's been going on for a long time, but has it gotten worse? I'm just thinking of how worse it's gotten in other parts of the country when you're walking down main streets and you get a bang of weed.
I would say if you're walking through more of the housing estates, it's very much openly accepted that you can sit outside your front door and
smoke weed like as if you're smoking a cigarette it's bizarre like if you went into any other estate you wouldn't see that but in valley one no problem sure look just light up a joint there and casually sit there like you anyone could go and walk into the estate into certain estates and you'll get the smell and conjuring outside you know outside the front like it just gives the place a bad name it looks doesn't look great it's like an episode of love house
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Chapter 3: How does living near Ballymun affect community perceptions?
You know, it's just not the best. It's not very aesthetically pleasing, but that's irrelevant really, I suppose, at the end of the day. It's just how people just need to cop on to themselves. And what happened yesterday is just a prime example of probably what's going to come.
But are those people, as you say, who need to cop on, are they the victims of, you know, social deprivation?
Oh, 100%, yeah. It's the way they're bringing their kids up.
you know and as I said the police can only do so much it's the way people are bringing their kids up and there's no consequences to it but those parents probably grew up in social deprivation too you know it's intergenerational the issue yeah absolutely the cycle just repeats and repeats and repeats so something needs to change and it's just it just doesn't seem to they don't seem to be able to get the help they need
But, yeah.
51551, as I said at the end, the text number if people want to get in touch or just give me a call and get in on the conversation that way on 0818715815. And Aaron is on the line. Aaron, do you recognise the Ballymun that Rebecca's describing there?
How's it going, Ciarán? Thanks for having me on. Come on, so I was born and raised in Ballymun. I'm 25 now. I live just outside of the county, but I'm very much involved in the county. I've worked in the county extensively. I work as a youth worker now in Rialto, but I work also as a socially engaged artist. I've done loads of projects with people of different generations in Ballymun.
I'm very much involved in the local skills and youth clubs and the art centre and so on. And I think what that woman before me has said to Rebecca, was it?
Yeah.
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Chapter 4: What are the underlying issues contributing to antisocial behavior in Ballymun?
Barrymore's a kid. It's full of crime. It's this, that and the other. And I think we need to... Yeah, it is. Yeah, unfortunately. And unfortunately, kids have to grow up without that. And unfortunately, families have to live within that. And do you not think that that violence reciprocates and creates more violence?
Do you not think when a child grows up around addiction and violence that they're going to reciprocate that? So we need to talk about what are the solutions here? We can't just put the blame on the parents and say it's their fault. There's something wrong with them. You use the word civilised. Uncivilised. Are we living in the 1800s in Britain? What is this uncivilised language?
We need to invest in this community. We need to invest in this community. We need to support families. We need to support families. We need to support the children in that community. We need to help people, right? We can't just put blame on them and move on, right? Some of us are not privileged like that. We don't get to move on. We have to live in it every day. Where's the government investment?
Where's the government investment? With the politicians.
100%, yeah.
Where are people at that level when this stuff goes on?
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Chapter 5: How do the residents describe the reality of life in Ballymun?
Where are they not out in the community working on things? Do you know? Where are they not on the shelf talking? You know? Where are they? Where's Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael when stuff like this happens? You know? Because we don't see them. No one in my community hears from them.
Aaron, what is the solution? How do you break... that intergenerational cycle.
Unfortunately, it's an, like you said, intergenerational cycle. It's a big problem. It's a big, big, massive issue. So there's going to need to be numerous and numerous attempts at breaking it. It's not just one solution, you know. It's a whole, it's a whole varied approach of things.
And what really we need is investments, yes, in youth clubs, but also in education and family support and mental health services in the community. You know, we need more therapists. We need more group workers. We need more family support workers. We need a lot more youth clubs, a lot more stuff to keep the kids busy. We need opportunities for people to find employment.
There was a time where if you put your name and your address on a CV and said you were from Ballymun, you wouldn't get employed. You wouldn't get the job. People had to lie and say they lived in Glasnevin or put a nanny's address down or a cousin's address down. People had to lie because they'd see Ballymun on the CV and they'd throw it out.
You know, that's the history that we're talking about here.
Is that still the same? Has that improved?
Now, that has improved. The other thing, I hate having to come on and speak like this because I work on some of the more positive things in Ballymun and I try and champion that because there is great things going on in Ballymun.
What's the best thing going on in Ballymun?
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Chapter 6: What role do parents play in the behavior of children in deprived areas?
So if the crime in the area, historically, is linked to the poverty, right? If crime is a... Because that's essentially what it is, right? The drug dealing and the crime is a pushback against poverty. It was people who lived in poverty and a culture of drug dealing took over. Drug dealers came into a community.
Yeah, but Aaron, they have money to buy their kids' grandmothers. That doesn't make sense to me. When you're walking down the road and there's a scrambler coming flying down Glassnevin Avenue, you know, but they have money to buy scramblers and there's loads of scramblers in Ballymun, loads of them. So they have money to buy the kids scramblers.
Do you ever remember in Ballymun on Christmas Day and you can hear them on the main street, yeah, flying up and down on the scramblers because they do. Say again?
Worried about when the scramblers cross over into Glassnevin.
So I live in Ballymun, so why would I be worried about Glassnevin?
Why would you say Glassnevin? I don't know then.
But I'm saying when you're walking down into Glassnevin and they're flying from Ballymun down into Glassnevin, up and down doing wheelies on their scramblers, up and down, they don't care. But yet their parents can go out and buy them scramblers at Christmas, but you're saying that they're poverty stricken. So you can say all your life poverty stricken, but like, come on. they can go and do that.
So that doesn't really make any sense to me.
Aaron, how strange is it to talk about drug gangs in Ballymun without acknowledging that not all the drug users are in Ballymun? Lots of middle-class people in Glasnevin shoving coke up their nose every weekend.
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Chapter 7: How is the judicial system viewed in relation to youth crime?
It's not practical for them to do that.
No, but even every two hours, just to be seen, even to walk through it, that's all. You know?
And what... Like, as somebody who's living there then and... I mean, what feedback have you gotten from, you know, the Gardaí about dealing with this on a more long-term basis, if it's happening every night?
Yeah, like, some of the shops are saying, what's the point in calling the Gardaí because they don't come down for three hours if they take something, you know? And so they kind of, I left kind of letting them kind of walk out with the stuff and that's not good enough either, you know?
Yeah.
Everyone is trying to work and run businesses and that, you know?
Yeah. Rebecca, I know you were saying, listen, it's not the fault of Gardaí, it's primarily this starts at home, but at the same time, I mean, if young lads learn that there's no consequences, legal consequences to illegal actions, there is an issue there, isn't there? Oh, yeah, I get that.
But I do think, though, it is time that they've talked about it for years, that the parents need to take responsibility, even if they did it on a trial basis.
Yeah.
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Chapter 8: What solutions are proposed for addressing crime and antisocial behavior?
Whereas now, these kids are out as young as seven and eight. And the parents really don't care where they are. So why play these people at children's allowance?
Well, OK, let's talk about the children's allowance then. You know, Michael O'Leary gets the children's allowance as much as somebody in Clondalkin. And the principle is that it's not really a payment to him. It's a payment to the children.
Absolutely. So you're not punishing... Not with drops of drink.
Yeah, but you're punishing the kids then, aren't you, by... denying their parents money that's meant to support them.
Yeah, that it's meant to support the child, but unfortunately it's not supporting the child.
But how do you know what they're doing with their children's allowance?
Well, I don't know exactly what they're doing with their children's allowance per se, but I mean, if they're complaining of having no money, obviously they're not spending it on the children. If the children are running amok on the streets, they're not sending them to school. Like, it's education. Until we educate people,
But if they're not letting their children go to school or sending their children to school, and there's no excuse for that, absolutely no excuse for that.
Yeah.
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