In this interview, MIA speaks with Allan Horwitz and Sarah Fay about the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) and its impact on our society and our personal lives. Allan Horwitz is an Emeritus Professor of Sociology at Rutgers University. He is the author or co-author of 11 books, a number of which have focused on the DSM and how the successive iterations of that manual have shaped societal thinking about mental disorders. His most recent book is DSM: A History of Psychiatry's Bible. Sarah Fay is a writer whose essays and articles have been published in the New York Times, the Atlantic and numerous other national publications. Her memoir, Pathological: The True Story of Six Misdiagnoses was published in March. She is also the founder of Pathological: The Movement, a public awareness campaign "devoted to making people aware of the unreliability and invalidity of DSM diagnoses, and the dangers of identifying with an unproven mental illness."

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.