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Marketplace All-in-One

Here's what kept GDP climbing this summer

22 Jan 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What economic indicators are discussed in relation to GDP growth?

1.803 - 39.284 Kai Risdahl

You got your lagging economic indicators, and then you got your lagging economic indicators. From American Public Media, this is Market Class. In Los Angeles, I'm Kai Risdahl. It is Thursday, today, 22 January. Good as always to have you along, everybody. The macroeconomic news of the day is brought to us today by the letters P, C, and E. The Personal Consumption Expenditures Price Index.

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39.344 - 50.878 Kai Risdahl

It is for November, mind you, so a bit delayed. Thanks, shutdown. Came in this morning at 2.8%. That is higher by just a touch from October.

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Chapter 2: How do private sector services contribute to GDP growth?

51.061 - 55.226 Nina Eichacker

I'm Nina Eichacker, and I am an associate professor of economics at the University of Rhode Island.

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55.486 - 64.977 Laura Veldkamp

I'm Laura Veldkamp, and I'm the Cooperman professor of economics and finance at Columbia Business School. You can also just shorten that to Columbia Business School professor or Columbia professor.

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65.457 - 65.778 Kai Risdahl

Noted.

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66.398 - 73.086 Laura Veldkamp

Services, shelter, and food are still really expensive, and they're not slowing down.

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73.167 - 84.419 Nina Eichacker

We also have had consistently strong demand in the past few months. You know, surprisingly strong given everything that happened in the preceding year economically.

84.459 - 89.524 Kai Risdahl

Now, caveat emptor, because again, November.

90.064 - 100.575 Laura Veldkamp

It's not really a snapshot of what prices are doing today. It's a snapshot of what prices were doing, you know, in October and November when, you know, when much of this data was collected.

Chapter 3: What role does AI play in the current economic landscape?

100.657 - 110.413 Nina Eichacker

the changes are probably bigger than they look. If these are part of a trend and that trend was persisting from November to December,

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110.832 - 116.277 Kai Risdahl

PCE matters to all of us, of course, because PCE matters to the Federal Reserve.

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116.858 - 122.784 Laura Veldkamp

This measure is a little bit broader than some of the other measures of prices that sample a narrower set of goods.

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123.324 - 137.498 Nina Eichacker

While the CPI might include things that are really important, it might not include everything that a household necessarily cares about. The flexibility of the PCE lets economists reflect changes in preferences.

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137.478 - 158.792 Kai Risdahl

Preferences like buying chicken instead of beef because beef is so expensive right now. The substitution effect is what economists call that. PCE coming in the way it did today, by the by, that is higher, makes the Fed's interest rate meeting next week a teeny bit more predictable, by which I mean a lot more predictable. Odds of a rate cut. are going way down.

159.253 - 179.55 Kai Risdahl

That said, economic growth has been going up, or at least it was in the third quarter of last year, July through September. Thanks again, shutdown. 4.4% was the annual rate of growth in this economy back then, better than we'd initially thought, and better than the 3.8% growth in Q2.

179.53 - 192.146 Kai Risdahl

You drill down into the data, as we are wont to do around here, and you'll find one of the big contributors to that growth is private sector services. Think finance and tech and insurance. Marketplace's Stephanie Hughes is on it.

192.747 - 206.77 Nina Eichacker

Cornell trade economist Ishwar Prasad says he is one of the reasons why the tech industry is adding to GDP growth. He spends a lot of time analyzing giant data sets to understand what's happening in the financial markets. He writes computer code to do his analysis.

Chapter 4: How are packaging costs affecting food prices?

207.391 - 216.985 Nina Eichacker

Last year, he bought subscriptions to a couple AI services, ChatGPT and Claude. Now he throws his data sets in there and has the AI write the code or check his for errors.

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217.545 - 225.737 Ishwar Prasad

So it frees me up to do my work as an academic in a much better way and think a little more rather than spend my time mucking around with the data.

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225.97 - 232.661 Nina Eichacker

Prasad is buying a product of the information services industry, which was the leading contributor to GDP growth in the third quarter.

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233.222 - 239.433 Ishwar Prasad

Many of us are now signing on to and subscribing to AI services probably is what is happening here.

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239.994 - 250.932 Nina Eichacker

Another growth area, insurance. Economist Mike Skordelis at Truist says repairs for a home have gone way up in price in the last six years. And now the cost to insure a home is catching up.

251.266 - 257.32 Brian Weiser

All the materials are more expensive. The labor is certainly more expensive. The cost of insuring it is more expensive.

257.942 - 267.925 Nina Eichacker

Another thing that happened in the third quarter, mortgage rates started to fall. Scott Anderson, the chief U.S. economist for BMO Capital Markets, says that led more people to refinance their homes.

268.192 - 274.1 Scott Anderson

Consumers want to take advantage of the lower mortgage rates to refinance and tap some of that equity in their homes.

274.541 - 290.082 Nina Eichacker

This was a win for the financial services industry, which also contributed to growth. Also, Mike Skordelis at Truist says companies that had been sitting on the sidelines during the tariff onslaught last spring finally felt ready to make some deals. This also benefited the banks.

Chapter 5: What challenges do elder care facilities face with immigration policy changes?

308.002 - 312.347 Nina Eichacker

He says the strength of the service sector is one big reason we're not in a downturn.

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312.367 - 320.368 Scott Anderson

We aren't a goods producing organization. country anymore, you know, despite all the focus this year on goods and bringing manufacturing jobs back home.

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320.829 - 331.485 Nina Eichacker

Two other reasons we've stayed out of a downturn, Anderson says, consumers who keep on spending and tech companies that keep on investing in AI infrastructure. I'm Stephanie Hughes for Marketplace.

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332.867 - 375.132 Kai Risdahl

On Wall Street today, generally upbeat. We will have the details when we do the numbers. There is, perhaps, no phrase in all of economic reporting that generates more panic than these four little words. Too big to fail. Think back with me now, if you would, to the Great Recession, the subprime mortgage crisis, the bank failures, and then the very long and very slow recovery.

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375.483 - 386.083 Nina Eichacker

You know, if Institution X collapses suddenly, the damage spills so fast into the real world economy that the state steps in to prevent disorderly failure.

386.249 - 412.408 Kai Risdahl

James Van Geelen is founder and CEO of Citrini Research. Orderly failure is fine. Disorderly failure, definitely not fine. The government tried to limit disorderly failure back in 2008. It spent hundreds of billions of dollars to bail out the big banks, got all of that money back, I do have to point out. It took over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It tightened up banking regulations, too.

412.388 - 426.025 Kai Risdahl

But why are we talking about this today? We're talking about it because there is a slice of this economy that a simple Google search will tell you is making too big to fail popular again.

Chapter 6: How does the labor market impact elderly care services?

426.706 - 448.096 Kai Risdahl

Artificial intelligence. You probably heard me say in the past couple of months that big tech companies spent something like $400 billion last year building data centers. In the first half of 2025, they spent more than consumers did, which, again, you hear me say this a lot, consumer spending literally drives this economy, and AI spending was beating that.

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449.118 - 471.184 Kai Risdahl

Not only that, but a lot of AI spending is, for lack of a better word, circular. Just for instance, and this is a real example, Microsoft invests $13 billion into OpenAI, Then OpenAI turns around and invests right back into Microsoft for its cloud computing capacity. Too big to fail.

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471.923 - 495.687 Kai Risdahl

So next week, we're starting a series on AI and you, the infrastructure being built around it, and whether there is that systemic risk. Let's go back to James Van Geelen. He spends pretty much every day researching this stuff since AI drove a very big chunk of the market's gains in 2025. NVIDIA, up almost 40% for the year. Alphabet, around 65%.

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496.072 - 501.804 Nina Eichacker

Even if the stock market were to go down, AI would still proceed as a technology.

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502.385 - 510.823 Kai Risdahl

Van Gillen doesn't believe AI could fail and bring down the financial system like we saw in 2008. But that does not mean there are not risks.

511.023 - 524.62 Nina Eichacker

2026 is probably the year that we start seeing people losing their jobs and those jobs ceasing to exist. That is scarier to me from a sociological perspective than being afraid that it's not going to work like it is working.

525.141 - 543.703 Kai Risdahl

Until that happens, until artificial intelligence really distorts the labor market where we are right now. is a ton of money being thrown around by companies like OpenAI, which doesn't expect to be profitable until at least 2029. To be clear, it's not like too big to fail is new.

Chapter 7: What are the implications of 'too big to fail' in the context of AI?

544.323 - 559.44 Kai Risdahl

That we haven't seen what we all thought was reasonable risk grow, and then grow some more, in ways that become unmanageable. The first time in the modern U.S. economy? The 1970s and 80s. And, oh look, a banking crisis.

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559.758 - 568.612 Patricia McCoy

One of those banks was Continental Illinois, which happened to be the largest client of my law firm.

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569.193 - 579.69 Kai Risdahl

That's Patricia McCoy. Today, she's a professor at Boston College. But back in the 1980s, she was right out of law school when Continental Illinois was the sixth biggest bank in the country.

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579.974 - 591.773 Patricia McCoy

All of us new baby associates at the law firm were wondering, would we hang on to our jobs? Because the firm was in danger of losing its biggest client.

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591.905 - 615.668 Kai Risdahl

Continental Illinois was eventually seized by the FDIC, its assets absorbed in the Bank of America, along the way becoming the first bank to be called too big to fail on the floor of the United States Congress. Regulators said almost 200 other banks had substantial exposure, their words, to Continental, and businesses outside banking did as well, like Patricia McCoy's firm.

615.901 - 641.132 Kai Risdahl

She did keep her job and in the years since has been focused on bailouts and on too big to fail. Her work helped shape the Dodd-Frank Act, the 2010 law that in theory would end too big to fail, parts of which we should say the first Trump administration rolled way back. So we asked her whether AI's growing importance in this economy rings any alarm bells for her. It does. It does. It does.

641.197 - 647.331 Kai Risdahl

One big reason for that, she says, is all the spending on data center buildouts and how interconnected that spending is.

Chapter 8: How are companies like Gap adapting their marketing strategies?

647.752 - 657.433 Patricia McCoy

These companies, some of them have borrowed financing. They've taken out loans. They've borrowed money through the bond markets.

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657.548 - 671.144 Kai Risdahl

Amazon and Meta, Alphabet and Oracle all sold bonds last year to fund data center construction. For Meta, it was $30 billion worth just in October, the single biggest offering in the U.S. high-grade bond market last year.

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671.604 - 683.438 Patricia McCoy

The payoff, A, is uncertain, and B, for some of these companies, it's readily becoming apparent that the payoff will be pretty far down the line.

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683.755 - 693.303 Kai Risdahl

Banks are in the data center financing mix as well. Last year, JPMorgan Chase and a Japanese bank agreed to finance $23 billion in data centers for Oracle.

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693.844 - 714.264 Patricia McCoy

The question is, will they be able to honor those debts or will they default on them? That could trigger the failure of at least one large financial firm to whom it owes money. And then the financial firm's failure could could set off a domino effect.

714.946 - 719.093 Kai Risdahl

Domino effect, another phrase perhaps for systemic risk.

719.113 - 728.19 Patricia McCoy

Time and time again, if there is a group that is about to trigger a panic, the federal government has blinked.

728.322 - 747.85 Kai Risdahl

That's why we're having this conversation, because the bigger AI gets, the more bonds sold and data centers built by a small group of companies that are all interconnected, the bigger influence this industry is going to have on every part of this economy. So next week on this program, what that looks like on the ground.

768.434 - 792.13 Kai Risdahl

One of the side effects of this digital economy of ours, an unintended consequence perhaps, is that it is also now an attention economy, not an original idea of mine, to be clear. That plays out in all kinds of ways, specifically for us right now in corporate marketing. Gap has decided it's going to move beyond just marketing to media.

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