Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Cryptoqueen on the Run? | $4 Billion Ponzi Scam
Thu, 07 Nov 2024
Ruja Ignatova pioneered an alleged multi-billion-dollar Ponzi scheme disguised as a new cryptocurrency, OneCoin. Ignatova is on the FBI’s “Ten Most Wanted” list, and she’s been indicted on several charges of fraud and money laundering. The only problem? She’s been missing since 2017. Check out Josh's Channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuizfajesfk Follow me on all socials! Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/matthewcoxitc Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxcrime Follow my 2nd channel - Inside The Darkness! https://www.youtube.com/c/InsidetheDarknessAutobiographies Want to be a guest? Send me an email here! [email protected] Want a custom Con man painting shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/insidetruecrime Get a custom painting done by me! Check out my link! https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart Listen to True Crime Podcasts anywhere! https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my prison story books here! https://www.amazon.com/Matthew-Cox/e/B08372LKZG Support me here! Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69 Cashapp: $coxcon69
Chapter 1: What is the story behind Ruja Ignatova?
That's what's at the center of this entire story is that she didn't have a product. She had a marketing machine. She tapped into that thing that's inside of so many people, which was definitely inside of her, which is like, I want more, right? It's ambition. And she promised people and anyone who could just take the blinders off
could see, well, this doesn't even make sense. It was never legitimate. I mean, you had a basic concept that you were pitching, but you never even tried to, this thing was never legitimate. This was always a scam for her. It was always going to be a scam.
Had she timed her scam 18 months later, she could have made 10 times as much money. I mean, they basically say in bold caps, this is a Ponzi scheme. Our exit strategy is take the money and run.
Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Josh, America's attorney. And we are going to be discussing the crypto queen. Yeah, the crypto queen and the scam. And we're going to be discussing where she's at. So I appreciate you watching and check this out. Raja. Ruja.
Ruja. Ignatova. I got to call her the crypto queen because it's a totally awesome name. And she dubbed herself that. And that's like kind of, to me, the most important fact of this whole story.
I don't feel like you get to dub yourself. You shouldn't be able to. When I was in prison, I tried to push the name Chainsaw. Exactly. Nobody would call me chainsaw. You know, they say, well, what do they call you? I go, the chainsaw. And they would look guys would be like, like, no, man, stop, bro. Maybe handsaw. Yeah, you're not a chainsaw.
Okay, so I know that you've seen the Seinfeld episode where George decides that he wants to be called T-Bone, right? Yes. So they go to lunch and he orders a T-Bone steak and then somebody beside him orders a T-Bone steak and they decide to call that guy T-Bone and George is like, no, I order the T-Bone first. I get to be called T-Bone. It's the coolest nickname. Yeah. What they end up calling him?
Later in the episode, they see him like dancing in the hallway, stomping, and maybe he has a banana in his hand. They end up calling him Coco the monkey.
You definitely don't get to pick your own nickname.
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Chapter 2: What made OneCoin a Ponzi scheme?
is that it didn't, it was never legitimate, which is kind of like- I'm putting an asterisk by the word admire, but go on. I mean, it was kind of the Charles Ponzi thing where like, it was never legitimate. I mean, you had a basic concept that you were pitching, but you never even tried to, this thing was never legitimate. This was always a scam for her. It was always going to be a scam.
So let me give the America's Attorney version of what a cryptocurrency is so that we're on the same page, okay? Right. Cryptocurrency is a closed ecosystem that if it works, it works because there is a blockchain that anyone can participate in, anyone can see, and no one can change. it is itself a record of everything. And it's not forgeable, it's not changeable, and it tracks everything.
And that's why, I mean... That's why it will eventually... Digital currency will eventually rule the day. I don't know that it will be unbacked digital currency because of the volatility issues. I mean, no one wants to sell a bale of hay on Wednesday for a certain amount and then find out on Thursday that the money that they got is worth, you know, one third of whatever they got for it. But...
What's fascinating about this is that they never had a blockchain program. They were selling cryptocurrency, but they never had a blockchain.
Yeah, I saw. And that they were able to. It's not like they were manipulating the market by buying and selling like like like like Jake Paul was planning to do. Yeah. Right.
I mean, Logan Paul.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Logan. They actually went in and were able to actually go in and do it themselves. They were able to just change the numbers themselves to make it look like there was volatility and it was going up and it was like – and then did you see the quotes where she says – she was like, make sure we always close on an up as it's going up to build confidence.
Every day let's close with it going up so people feel good about it.
So I think it's important to have the larger crypto context here. This thing started in 14 and the wheels came off in 16 and she disappeared in 16. And I want to talk about her disappearance with you because I'm Like, I'm fascinated by it. New identities, I think, are like a really an American concept.
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Chapter 3: How did Ruja Ignatova market her scam?
Yeah, because Bitcoin had already left the station and people are like, well, I can't invest in that. It's already gone up so much, but here's OneCoin. And that name is a baller name.
OneCoin? It is, but are you telling me you're disappointed that she only got $4 billion? No, no, no. You're like, hey, she could have gotten $10.
She's a sucker. Okay, so first of all, you're putting $4 billion in my mouth. It never happened. The investments by country. They only got 50 million investments from the, invested from the U.S. in the first half of 2016. This is, it's mostly Chinese money that she got.
Oh, well, that's okay.
Yeah, so, you make a joke, and I get it, but the reality is, like, she took, when she was peaking in terms of the amount that she was stealing from the public, It was only $50 million from the US. That is not a lot of money relative to the damage she was doing to people out in the world, right? Yes. You're a math whiz. What percent of $4 billion is $50 million? I don't know. I know.
I think it's like maybe 1.2%. You know what? Turns out no one cares. 50 million? I'm good with 50 million. You would be good with 50 million. I mean, that's all Val Kilmer wanted in the Saint, right? He was stealing money, and he said 50 million, and I'm out. I hope my errors don't put that clip in. I love that move.
You do? The Saint? The acting is so bad. It... It's Val Kilmer.
Okay. So, like, do you like it? Like, I mean, the way that I like it is because it's campy.
Yeah.
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Chapter 4: What happened to Ruja Ignatova after 2017?
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they are investing because they think it's a scam or maybe they think it's a pump and dump scheme. But I'm going to come in at the bottom and I'm going to sell just before the top. Problem is, how do you know that? How do you know when that is?
Yeah. So their actual a lot of their revenue was not from the purchase of coins, but from the purchase of coins. educational materials about crypto. And I don't know if you read this, but they have levels. Basically, it's like you can pay in as a day laborer and then as a manager and then as an executive and then as a tycoon. And you can pay all this money to get educational materials.
And then, of course, now that you know their version of the crypto world, you'll want to spend more money.
He bilked some of the nation's largest banks out of an estimated $55 million, because $50 million wasn't enough, and $60 million seemed excessive. He is the most interesting man in the world.
I don't typically commit crimes, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends.
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I didn't know that was, you know, that was the different levels. But I did know that, you know, I knew it was obviously doing the multi-marketing. I also knew that they were selling courses. Yeah. Training courses. I didn't realize they were different levels. But I think, you know, the other thing I was going to ask you about.
Because when we get to her taking off, I watched a five-minute video I was going to mention to you. But the other thing I noticed is that I keep seeing $15 billion, $15 billion. Is that what the entire scheme brought in? Because it looks like she made $4 billion and took off. But I've also seen it's a $15 billion scam.
Yeah, I think 15 is the total amount of money they're saying that passed through the organization. Okay. And then four is what they, I think, believe that she and maybe also the other people at the top were able to get away with.
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Chapter 5: How does the OneCoin scam compare to other Ponzi schemes?
I want to talk about the FBI's most wanted list. Okay. It's so sexist. There's been 529 people on the most wanted list. How many women?
11.
It's not right. It really should be... it really should be more evenly spread out. Like I think it should be at least 50%. You should have at least three Asians in there. It should be 13% black and 10% Hispanic. And they really, really, it's not right.
She's the 11th woman to get on the list out of 529. And I don't think- Overachiever. What did you say?
Overachiever.
Yeah. I don't think that she deserves to be on the list. No? What's the criteria?
They're looking for you. Listen, I was number one on the Secret Service's most wanted list. Come on. Who am I? Yeah. There's other people.
Is the Secret Service list even on the internet? That thing's probably on the dark web. No one even knows about it.
I didn't even know they had one until I was reading an article on me, and I was like, what? That's crazy.
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Chapter 6: What is the current status of the investigation into OneCoin?
Hanging out with them. I'll hang out with you. Let's go to dinner.
Yeah. So I he can't his his her brother can't hand law enforcement her on a silver platter. Not even close. But he can give helpful information. Right. Right. Presumably in some way, even if it's just layers that they have to dig through. Right.
Well, he's not. Let's face it. He's not the... What do you think he's facing anyway? I mean, how much time do you think he'll get? He's certainly not the top dog. He's not the brightest bulb in the house.
Yeah, I would need to look at his charges. I guess he's like... If she's the crypto queen, he's like the crypto jack or the... I was going to say... I was thinking more like the gesture. You saw... Yeah, the crypto jester. You know... I mean, probably like seven or eight years, right?
I don't know. So you give him 10 years. He gets a drug program, some halfway house. It's a good time. This guy's going to be out in seven years, six years. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. Yeah, let's say, yeah, you're right. Eight, 10 years, something like that.
Yeah. Okay, how about this? We're going to give you two years, right? When you get out, you need to lead us to her within two years or else you're coming back in for another five years. I know, that's not how they do it. That would be a great story.
You're getting creative, way more creative than they would get. They don't have that type of creativity in them.
Right, he needs to do a legitimate stint in prison And then he needs to get out and he just they just need to use him to get to her. But they'll never do that for a number of reasons. One of them is like their attitude is they don't need this guy. We'll go find her on our own. We're the best.
Yeah. Well, let's face it. They don't. Well, in the Fed and state, like they don't they don't convict anybody without people cooperating, especially even with documents. Like it's hard to stand up in front of a jury and just read off the documents without somebody sitting on the stand saying these are the documents. This is what it means. Yeah.
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