Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast
Exposing the Secrets of the Trillion-Dollar Scam Industry
Sat, 11 Jan 2025
Forensic accounting expert Kelly Richmond Pope shows fraud in action, uncovering what makes perps tick, victims so gullible, and whistleblowers so morally righteous, while also encouraging us to look at our own behaviors and motivations in the hope of protecting ourselves and our companies. Kelly's Book https://www.amazon.com/Fool-Me-Once-Trillion-Dollar-Industry/dp/1647823919 Kelly's Website https://www.kellyrichmondpope.com Follow me on all socials! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mattcoxtruecrime Do you want to be a guest? Send me an email here: [email protected] Do you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrime Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8 Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438 The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402 Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1 Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel! Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here: Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69 Cashapp: $coxcon69
Chapter 1: What is the largest municipal fraud in U.S. history?
It's known as a large municipal fraud in U.S. history. So look at Rita and you're sort of like, wow, you live like a queen for 20 years and served eight. One may argue that crime does pay. So the reason why he was diluting medication and making it spread further was two things. He had a large bill from the IRS that he wanted to pay and record show was around half a million dollars.
And then he wanted to make a million dollar donation to his church. So he wanted to expand his gross margin.
He wanted to make a million dollar donation to the church. This guy made millions. But every two or three years, he would hit everybody across the board for like thirty nine dollars. Just ran it. This guy's a multimillionaire. He's got like 20 gyms. He's, he's got, you know, he lives in a, in a $4 million house. Like he's, he's filthy rich.
And this is just a narcissist in me is that this one student said, this female student goes, do you feel like she was, do you feel like you got away with it for so long because you're so charming? And I mean, I started laughing so hard. I would like to be honest with you. Like how close are you with your wife? And I went, what do you mean?
He said, listen, he goes, because all the loans are in her name. Mr. Black's sister saying, my brother was in a horrible accident. He's currently in a coma.
The doctor said- Yeah, this is too much. I don't believe you did. This is too, you did all this?
And I waited about a month and a half. And then I called the police and said, I got broke into. And then- Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I'm going to be interviewing Kelly Pope. And she is the author of a book about con men called Fool Me Once. And we're going to be talking about the book and talking about a few different con men and scams and that sort of thing. So check out the interview.
What's going on? Tell me about yourself.
Well, I am an accounting professor. I'm a filmmaker. And now, well, not now, I've been an author, but I have a new book out, which is why we're talking. And this is my sample copy, but this is it called Fool Me Once. Scam Stories and Secrets from the Trillion Dollar Fraud Industry. So you can see all of my notes that I take every time I read it. So that is my latest project. I'm super excited.
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Chapter 2: How do perpetrators justify their actions?
or do consultant services for and who would listen to her. I mean, they really would. So I think she's missing a huge opportunity. You know, once you get through the hate, because you're going to have hate, but everybody has hate. I mean, even if you don't commit a crime, you have hate. People hate me, you know, for whatever reason. So you're always going to have that.
So I think that she's missing, she's missed a golden opportunity to actually help other municipalities and towns because they would listen to her. You know, they really would. So here's the thing. She got 19 years and seven months in federal prison, but get this, something called COVID happened. And when COVID happened, she got out early. She got out early. She only served about eight years.
So she got out in 2021 because of COVID. If there were no COVID, she would be still in federal prison right now, but she got out.
And she's, by the way, when they, you know, that, that ends at the end of this month, the mandate.
But they don't have to go back.
But they're not going back. I was going to say, I was always like, oh, well, they're going to pull them all back.
No. And so that's the thing. I think under the Trump administration, they might have had to go back. But the Biden administration decided, no, they could stay. But maybe Trump would have sent them back. I don't know.
You know, and I can like. So here's the problem, even though. Well, first of all, the offenders that got out were not. You know, horribly violent offenders, they need to be watched. So I get letting these people out because they're just not that much a huge danger to society as long as they're monitored.
But, you know, like if you've got 10 years to do, but usually some of these sentences are outrageous to begin with. So I'm kind of conflicted.
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Chapter 3: What types of perpetrators exist in fraud?
No, I'm not talking the relationship, but that you just happen to get like the nurse. I understand the nurse catching. I've got 30 patients. And in the last two weeks, almost none of them have gotten sick. Like that's odd. Like I've been doing this for 10 years.
And the sales rep, the sales rep is like, why do you have 30 patients? Because he, that doctor is only, we've only sold for 10. Right.
Right. The fact that both of them were aware enough to connect that and both of them go, something's not right. Most people just don't do that. Most people go through their jobs.
they're just clicking the buttons you know they're just clicking the okay okay they're not even thinking but think about this think about this she's thinking about how busy she is and he's thinking about his money because he's a sales rep so his his bonuses are being impacted by the lack of sales so when she said that to him like oh gosh we are slammed we are so busy he was probably like
That doesn't match my records. Why are you so busy? Are you using somebody else?
Well, I understand. It's just that either one of them, it's lucky for the patients that they were both, that they both had that conversation. They both, she happened to mention it.
And he happened to pick up on it.
Right. That whole thing, like that's a quint.
And you know, there's some months and time through this, but you think about That coupled with the fact that you have these patients that are not getting sick as they should, you know, so all of these little pieces floating out there. So she took this sample, got it tested, got this particular bag. And this particular bag had, I think, a drop of medication.
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Chapter 4: How do whistleblowers impact fraud cases?
What's interesting is how easy it is to do.
Once you're in the system and if you can poke around and figure, especially if you're in a position where you can learn through trial and error. Every time I made a mistake, I learned a little bit more, a little bit more. I was able to If a bank blamed, so if a bank found out about it and came to me and said, this is what we just found out, I'd say, are you serious?
You're telling me my customer sent me that?
And the customer, you created.
Well, no, I'm saying if it was a real customer at the old, because I learned most of this while I was a mortgage broker, changing their documents. So if they caught something, I'd be like, you're telling me my customer gave me a fake W-2? He seemed so honest. And I'd say, well, I'm not doing that loan for him. Hey, by the way, how'd you figure that out? And they'd say, oh, well, it turns out this.
Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. And then I'd alter it and send it to another lender and then it'd go through and they'd close the loan. So I feel bad. So what happens is I start creating these fake people. I raise the value. I start buying these houses for 40 and 50,000. recording the values of the houses at 200, 220, whatever, 190, 250. And so the whole area raises up through the roof.
And my borrowers, each borrower buys five, sometimes six houses, refinances those houses after a month or so, pulls out 150,000, 100, 150,000, whatever the appraisal came in at. like 80, 95%, 90%. And so once each one of them got to around a million, 1.1 million, 1.2 million, and I'd make the payments, of course, then I just stopped paying.
And the houses would go into foreclosure and the bank would take the house back and the bank would send out an appraiser to say, hey, how much is this house worth? And the appraiser would once again say, it's worth 220,000. And they'd put it on the market and it wouldn't sell. And then they lower the price. Three months later, they lowered the price again.
Three months later, they lowered it again. Eventually, they'd end up selling it for $70,000 or $50,000 or whatever. And they'd lose $100,000. They'd say, man, that's crazy. I can't believe how off we were on that. Yeah, that happened. So they didn't know there was a scam that had been committed.
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