Worried Noises
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Katie.
Yeah.
Today is your last podcast.
I know.
For some period of time.
Yeah, until at least 2027. I'm sad, I gotta say.
You definitely watched back what you were going to say. You were like, I'm pretty jazzed to never do this podcast. Sad, jazzed.
I was saying to Anna, our producer, before we started, I'm going to come back.
To the podcast? You mean when you return from parental leave, not like a visit in a month?
No, no, no, no. You're not going to see me. But I'm going to come back to Bloomberg. But I have all these goodbyes. Like this is my last podcast. I filed my last newsletter. Tomorrow is my last TV show. I don't like saying goodbye again and again and again. But I feel like it's part of the process.
It is definitely part of the process. I'm sorry to burden you with another goodbye. No, it's good. But there is like administrative – Yeah. We have to be like – friends, listeners, this podcast will not be going dark for six months.
We're rebalancing.
We're rebalancing. We're going to take August off. Then we'll be coming back to you with a rotating cast of guest hosts who will not be filling Katie's shoes, but will be chatting with me about the financial news of the week and whatnot and so forth.
Yeah.
We'll miss you.
I'll miss you, Matt, and I'll miss this podcast because it's fun to have an hour locked in a room with you every week.
Wow, that doesn't sound sincere.
No, it is. It does.
Hello, and welcome to the Money Stuff Podcast, your weekly podcast where we talk about stuff related to money. I'm Matt Levine, and I write the Money Stuff column for Bloomberg Opinion.
And I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter for Bloomberg News and an anchor for Bloomberg Television.
I have a segue.
Okay, go.
Speaking of rebalancing.
Okay.
351 exchanges.
Oh, yeah. You're going right into 351 exchanges.
I mean.
You love a 351 exchange. We're going to get some ETF into the last podcast we do.
It's amazing that it's, I mean, it's one of the conversations happening this week. The Treasury Department or the ETF industry in general is getting very inventive in all the ways that it's like ducking taxes or at least deferring them. And the Treasury Department is like increasingly annoyed about that.
Right. Because like when I first became aware of ETFs, the story was... Index ETFs are more tax efficient than index mutual funds because when people trade out of an ETF, it doesn't cause taxes for the people who remain in the ETF. Because if you own an index mutual fund, people who leave the mutual fund causes selling of stock, and so that causes a tax realization event for you, and so you have to pay taxes even though you haven't sold your mutual fund shares. And that's the nub of the idea. But then over time, ETFs realized that all of their stock trading could be done in kind so that they never had to incur taxes for their customers, for their investors. And so if you own an ETF... You should never have to pay taxes on the trades that the ETF does.
They could do cash stock trades, but they don't anymore because they've learned that they don't have to. There's a thing called a heartbeat, which is a way you can move stocks out of the ETF and move new stocks in without incurring taxes.
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Chapters
4 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–11:08
2
How are '351 exchange' ETFs being used to defer taxes and who is using them?
11:08–13:04
3
What is a 351 exchange ETF and how does it let wealthy investors avoid immediate tax?
13:04–28:58
4
Why is the Treasury Department concerned about the proliferation of 351 ETFs?
28:58–32:18