Adam Toon, "Mind As Metaphor: A Defence of Mental Fictionalism" (Oxford UP, 2023)
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What is folk psychology and why does Adam Toon argue it’s a mistaken view?
Hi everyone, this is Marshall Poe. I'm the founder of the New Books Network and I'm also a historian. I used to be a history professor and I love maps, so I'm especially happy to tell you that this episode is sponsored by What's Your Map, which was the winner of the Best Education Podcast at the 2025 British Podcast Awards. What's Your Map is hosted by historian and prize-winning author Professor Jerry Broughton. In each episode, he invites a guest to share a map close to their heart and unfurl the ideas, inspirations, and stories behind it. I can tell you I've listened and it's fascinating. The podcast is in its sixth series and is enjoyed by audiences around the globe. You can explore all the maps in the podcast online.
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Hello, and welcome to New Books and Philosophy, a podcast channel with the New Books Network. I'm Carrie Figdor, professor of philosophy at the University of Iowa. I'm co-host of the channel along with Robert Tillis, Sarah Tyson, and Malcolm Keating. Together, we bring you conversations with philosophers about their new books in a wide range of areas of contemporary philosophical inquiry. Today's interview is with Adam Toon, Associate Professor of Philosophy at the University of Exeter. His new book, Mind as Metaphor, is just out from Oxford University Press. Folk psychology on a standard reading is the way we attribute contentful mental states to others in order to explain and predict their behavior.
For example, saying that John thinks the plant needs water as an inner mental state that explains why he is looking for the watering can. In his new book, Toon argues that this view is incorrect. We do not have mental representations. Instead, while our concept of mind is of an inner world, this inner world is a fiction. What we are really doing is picking out complex patterns of behavior and projecting this inward. Intentionality, meanwhile, resides in public language, not in the mind. Toon also distinguishes his view from Ryle's and Dennett's and argues that while the ascriptions should not be taken literally, their purpose is serious and our practice of ascribing them is indispensable. Let's turn to the interview.
Hello, Adam Toon. Welcome to New Books and Philosophy.
Hi, thank you for having me.
This is a great, very fun book, actually, to read. You know, well-written, but also very intriguing. And, you know, I can't say I was completely persuaded by Mindless Metaphor, but I'm kind of willing to be persuaded. And I think there's a lot of interesting points that you make during the course of the book. Sure. Thank you. So before we get into the details of the book, tell us a bit about yourself. You're now at Exeter. So how did you get into philosophy and how did you come to write this book?
Yeah, thank you. Well, I suppose if I think back to school, I was sort of one of those kids who was interested in pretty much everything across the humanities and sciences. But in the UK, anyway, you're asked to sort of specialize, pick three or four subjects fairly young, about 15, 16. So I ended up doing the and maths and sciences, and I was lucky enough to get a place at university in Cambridge to do maths and physics. And I had a great time, but I think as I look back on it, I think I could sort of hear friends in the college bar having sort of big debates about politics or history or big ideas, big books and so on and start to feel a little bit jealous. I was missing out on something there as I saw the, this was two years into my degree, so I saw the end of my time looming.
And I suppose also I got slightly depressed at the, certainly not the attitude of any of my teachers and lecturers there, but the slightly dogmatic attitude
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Chapters
6 chapters
1
What is folk psychology and why does Adam Toon argue it’s a mistaken view?
0:00–15:35
2
How does Toon introduce the idea that the mind is a useful fiction?
15:35–25:05
3
What personal background led Toon to develop mental fictionalism?
25:05–33:11
4
How does Toon explain the metaphorical projection of outer behavior into an inner world?
33:11–43:34
5
In what ways does Toon’s view differ from Ryle’s and Dennett’s positions?
43:34–56:26
6
Why does Toon claim intentionality resides in public language rather than the mind?
56:26–59:15
Speakers
2 identifiedMore from New Books in Philosophy
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