Rasmus Grønfeldt Winther, "When Maps Become the World" (U Chicago Press, 2020)
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What is the central argument of Rasmus Winther’s book *When Maps Become the World*?
Hi everyone, this is Marshall Poe. I'm the founder of the New Books Network, and I'm also a historian. I used to be a history professor, and I love maps. So I'm especially happy to tell you that this episode is sponsored by What's Your Map, which was the winner of the best education podcast at the 2025 British Podcast Awards. What's Your Map is hosted by historian and prize-winning author, Professor Jerry Broughton. In each episode, he invites a guest to share. A map close to their heart and unfurl the ideas, inspirations, and stories behind it. I can tell you I've listened and it's fascinating. The podcast is in its sixth series and is enjoyed by audiences around the globe. You can explore all the maps in the podcast at occulehyphenmundi.com while you listen.
Jerry's guests include Zakya Suewell, who's an English broadcaster, and writer on Finding Albion, Josh Schmidt, who's the Head of maps at the Zurich Central Library, Pat Seed, a US historian on Ptolemy's World Map, John Romero, who's a legendary video game producer on the Doom Game Creator, Elif Sharak, a well known Turkish British novelist, and Chet Van Duzer, a historian who will tell you about Martin Valdsey Mueller's Carter Marina of sixteen forty five. I highly encourage you to subscribe to What's Your Map. It's available on Apple, Spotify, and all major Podcast platforms. Welcome to the New Books Network.
Hello and welcome to New Books in Philosophy, a podcast channel with the New Books Network. I'm Carrie Figtor, Professor of Philosophy at the University of Iowa. I'm co host of the channel along with Robert Talise, Sarah Tyson, and Malcolm Keating. Together we bring you conversations with philosophers about their new books and in a wide range of areas of contemporary philosophical inquiry. Today's interview is with Rosmus Grandfeld Winter, Professor of Humanities at the University of California, Santa Cruz. His new book, When Maps Become the World, is just out from University of Chicago Press. There are maps of the Earth's land masses, the universe, the ocean floors, human migration, the human brain.
Maps are so integral to how we interact with the world that we sometimes forget that they are not the world. In his new book, Winter considers how maps get made, used, and abused, and how processes and problems from cartography can be found in the ways we create and use scientific theories. He shows how what he calls pernicious reification, or taking the map or model for what it represents. Can arise in science or and argues for contextual ag objectivity regarding scientific theories. A form of pluralism between realism and constructivism about the external world. The maps and drawings filling the book are Both illustrate Winter's discussion as well as the power that maps and theories have to shape the way we think about the world.
Let's turn to the interview. Hello, Rasmus Grandfeldwinter. I cannot pronounce your Danish name. Uh welcome to New Books in Philosophy.
Thank you, Carrie.
Um I'm really happy to be talking with you about your book. Um and uh before we begin, uh talking about when maps become the world. Um Uh maybe you could say a word a bit a bit about yourself, um, your background, how you came to philosophy, um, how you came to write the book. I mean, I noticed that you've also like myself spent some time a lot a lot more time in in Caracas where I I lived in Chacaito and then Caurimare, you know, if which should remind you of various neighborhoods there. Yes. Um So so yeah, tell us a bit about yourself.
Thank you, Carrie, and thank you for having me on the show. I am a philosopher of science. That's how I think of myself primarily. I As you um mentioned, I grew up in uh Venezuela with Danish parents and I moved I w I first set foot in the US at age eighteen. And so I wasn't v I wasn't familiar at all with uh the US and um I've been moving around a bit too and uh I have always been interested in philosophy. I remember since I was conscious, basically, since around five or six years of age, I've always been absolutely obsessed.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the central argument of Rasmus Winther’s book *When Maps Become the World*?
0:00–9:37
2
How does Winther’s personal background shape his view of maps and philosophy of science?
9:37–18:54
3
What does Winther mean by “map‑thinking” and why is it important for scientific theorizing?
18:54–26:31
4
What are the five main kinds of maps Winther identifies and how do they differ?
26:31–35:07
5
How does the concept of “pernicious reification” affect the use of models in science?
35:07–43:55
6
What is “contextual objectivity” and how does it navigate between realism and constructivism?
43:55–51:29
7
How do modern tools like GIS and digital mapping influence the risks of reification?
51:29–58:42
8
Which map does Winther consider his favorite and why does it illustrate his thesis?
58:42–1:04:31
Speakers
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