Eric Ries shares how financial 'gravity' pulls great companies away from their founders' purpose, and his solutions in his new book Incorruptible (Authors Equity, 2026) Join us for a uniquely provocative conversation between our host, Richard Lucas, and renowned entrepreneur and "Lean Startup" author Eric Ries on his new book, Incorruptible. Moving beyond the surface-level summary, Richard intentionally focuses on the book's deep ethical and moral core, giving Ries the space to clarify and elaborate on his most challenging ideas.1 This is not your typical book tour stop. Richard dives into what he finds "particularly interesting," exploring why founders must prioritize building an enterprise "worth protecting" from the start—a business whose mission is protected by structural guardrails. Richard highlights memorable quotes from Eric's book, including:1 "Not every form of making money is equally good."1 "The more golden the goose, the stronger the temptation to butcher it."1 Ries explains that without these defenses, a universal, systemic force he calls "financial gravity" will inevitably pull the organization toward short-term profit maximization over "human flourishing". He argues that waiting until a business is successful to put in guardrails is "too late" because success attracts predators. Taking the principled path, though harder, Ries believes, unlocks "almost unbelievable superpowers". The discussion drills down into practical, yet philosophical questions: Can any system resist a corrupt leader? Richard challenges Ries on the possibility of an ethical defense military technology company (like those defending Ukraine), leading Ries to clarify that technology is neutral; the danger lies in who controls it. They also explore the failure of modern management practices, discussing how reliance on metrics like average hold time can create "false proxies" that actively make customer service worse. Finally, Ries advocates for a powerful solution for corporate governance: a universal director's oath, similar to the Hippocratic Oath, to bind corporate leadership to a commitment to the mission.1 Tune in to hear Ries’s candid reflections, including his personal belief that integrity is not merely ethical, but a competitive advantage—the true foundation for economic success, while emphasizing the first step for every founder and entrepreneur: "First, create something worth protecting Links & References Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great Book release date is May 26 in the US, May 28 worldwide Amazon listing Website: here Seth Godin on false metrics Frankenstein, Incorporated by I Maurice Wormser Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Ask this episode

“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.