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Chapter 1: What prompted the social media ban for children under 16?
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Hello. On Tuesday morning, we got a call from the Education Secretary's office saying that Bridget Philipson wants to come to Newscast to talk about the social media ban, which was announced by the government on Monday. And we thought that would be a good opportunity to dig into some of the details of the policy and some of the reaction to it that we've had in the last 36 hours.
But once we actually recorded the conversation, the Education Secretary was in a much more expansive mood. And we ended up talking about, well, basically her mission to save Britain's childhoods. So we thought you would like to hear that whole conversation as an episode of Newscast. Thinking about it like a panto helped.
Do we play music now or what do we do?
Education secretary, hello. Hello. And thanks for coming in as well, rather than doing it from your laptop in your office.
Much better.
Have you got your red box with you? Does it travel with you everywhere?
I've got my red folder with me, so I've got in there what I'm doing today and various documents for various meetings.
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Chapter 2: How will the ban on social media impact children's screen time?
That's a different proposition. And also, I think it's also true around young children and screens. So we've set out screen time guidance for the under five. So helpful advice to parents about what a good use of screens would look like. So basically with under twos, don't.
Above the age of two, an hour a day and try and do it in a way that is interactive with your child, not just giving a child a device and saying, get on with it.
If a parent wants to sit and watch content with a 13-year-old on Second World War or whatever, physics documentary, that's a very different kind of proposition to children being allowed unfettered access to strangers, to harmful material, being able to be contacted by people they've never met.
We've allowed children to be exposed to things inside the home that we just wouldn't allow outside of the home.
Oh, so basically you would be OK with a mum or a dad or a carer saying, all right, I'll watch that physics video with you on my YouTube account that I've logged into with my age verification as an over 16 year old.
I think parents have to make choices about what is also appropriate for their children. I think it's right that government regulates. to make sure that as far as possible, children have happy, healthy childhoods without harm. But there is always a role for parental responsibility in this. It's not to blame parents.
It's just to say, look, sometimes parents will be a good judge of what is appropriate for their child at a different point. I think government has a role to play in setting out those parameters, as we have done with the screen time guidance we've issued for the under fives.
But then if a parent wants to sit and watch, you know, see babies with their child for an hour and an evening, who am I to stop them doing that?
Yeah, because I was going to say you must feel a little bit of trepidation that you're going to be accused of being the nanny state and kind of going into people's living rooms and telling them how to behave.
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Chapter 3: What are the concerns about children's boredom with the ban?
I think this will allow young people to experience what is important as you grow up, which is understanding boundaries. becoming yourself as an individual, parents having to have a degree of trust about what works and a level of independence, of course, understanding and managing that risk. But I think we've ended up in this odd paradox of more exposure,
at home in the child's bedroom to quite harmful things and a reduction in the ability for children to take safe risks as they grow up in their local community. I understand why sometimes parents will be nervous But I think we've got to allow children to be children. And that doesn't just mean taking things away. And we do need to act, but it means opening up other possibilities.
Well, yeah, for example, you can't say go out and play now that you've got loads of time saved from looking at Instagram when you still also have knife crime. So, yeah, I get that point.
What I can't stop thinking about is, are we going to have this generation, and I can't quite work out what ages they are, but a generation of people who are sort of entering their teens now, who've been exposed to a lot of social media, a lot of bad stuff. And well, they always will have been. That generation will now just get older and older and older.
And so the generation before them didn't have it. The generation below, younger than them, won't have it as a result of this. And then you have this sort of like cursed generation who've had to put up with all of this stuff.
I hope not.
My word's not yours.
Yeah, I hope not. And I think it is sometimes hard to understand the impact and the evidence in isolation. So I think the emerging evidence is clear about the impact of long-term, extensive exposure of young children to screens.
It is becoming increasingly clear that there are downsides to that that have, whether it's speech and language development, children's ability to regulate, much more besides. But that's emerging and it's not... a totally clear picture. However, if we waited until that point, it could well be too late. That's part of the challenge.
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Chapter 4: How does the Education Secretary view parental involvement in media consumption?
Go and find something to do.
Be a little bit bored. You know, as a mum, and I know as an uncle, although my niece and nephew are now too old for this, but dealing with a bored child and finding something for them to do can be quite taxing.
It can be. But it does them no harm to be told, go and find something to do.
What would you do when you were bored? I bet you read. I bet you were never bored because you probably always had a book to read.
I mean, I did read, but actually much of my childhood, particularly my teenage years, we used to just wander around the town. You know, we sometimes will see young people where they're hanging around and sometimes that can be intimidating or it can be not with good intention. If we see a group of young people, we think, what are they up to?
And I appreciate for older residents, it can be intimidating. Equally, we used to leave the house. I'd go meet my friends. We'd wander around for hours. We'd hang around the park. We'd go and buy some chips. We'd go to the shopping centre. We'd go up on my friend's house. I'd get on my bike. I'd cycle up to my grandparents. I'd be out all day. No mobile phone.
I knew when I had to be back by and I knew where to go if there were problems. And that was done in a way where it was understood what was within my, in a way that was age appropriate. And you also have to take a judgment as a parent as to, the level of maturity of your child. Also how, you would need to feel confident that they could respond if something went wrong.
So where would they go for help if they ran into trouble? And that's important too. But these are quite important rites of passage, actually growing in independence.
And yeah, learning to be bored. Yeah, I mean, maybe some journalists could do with that.
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Chapter 5: What is the potential impact of longer school days on children's education?
It's also education. We reopen pubs before we reopen playgrounds. I mean, I'm all for support in the hospitality industry, but I also think kids should be able to go to a playground, especially if they don't have a garden at home.
Just going back to what you said about breakfast clubs and lengthening the school day, and do we cram too much into quite a short period of time? Is there an argument for an even longer school day?
I mean, there is, but it also costs an awful lot of money.
What side of the argument are you on?
Well, if money were no object, I know what I would do, but that's not the world in which we live.
Oh, in an ideal world, when would school finish then? 6? 6.30?
I think that's a bit much, but you would certainly, I think, you wouldn't necessarily just use that time for the traditional academic side of things. You would also make sure that you're able to allow for wider opportunities for young people as a part of that time. This is a distant dream because the costs are phenomenal.
And we face big challenges at the moment around making sure that we invest more in our schools, and we are, and there is more to do. But Kevin Collins, who's brilliant and has looked at all of the evidence, there is a very strong case for it. Of course there is. But
That's not something, not something sadly I can fund at the moment. Right, a few other things. Just before you came into the studio, John Healy was doing his resignation statement in the House of Commons. So that traditional thing that people can choose to do after they resigned from the cabinet. He said the government should be aiming to spend 3% of GDP, so the whole economy, on defence by 2030.
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Chapter 6: How can technology be both harmful and beneficial for children's learning?
The Prime Minister, Kia, continues to have my support. It's a tough old job being Prime Minister. As you say, he's off at the G7 at the moment, making sure that whether it's on Ukraine, defence investment, that we're doing what is right by the country. And I have never had cause to question his motivation, the intention behind what he's seeking to do. Have we got things wrong as a government?
Yes, we all have. And of course, that is about the Prime Minister. He's the leader of our party in the country. He holds responsibility for that and he takes that incredibly seriously. But we all do. We've all got responsibility in actually making this government work more effectively and doing things better as a Labour government.
Right. We've run out of time, but just to end where we began, I was at the cinema the other day there and the trailer for Toy Story 5 came on. Do you know who the baddie is in the new Toy Story?
Big Tech?
It's a tablet. Okay. So basically, Pixar are making a case for you.
There we are. I mean, I think this probably reflects a bit of a shift.
Yeah.
I think it probably does.
Because actually three years ago, the tablet wouldn't have been the baddie, would they? They'd be on the goodies side just as another toy.
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Chapter 7: What role do parents play in managing screen time for their children?
Newscast.
Newscast from the BBC. From one newscaster to another, thank you so much for making it to the end of this episode. You clearly do, in the words of Chris Mason, ooze stamina. Can I also gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds. Tell everyone you know.
And don't forget, you can email us anytime at newscast at bbc.co.uk or, if you're that way inclined, send us a WhatsApp on plus 44 0330 123 9480. Be assured, I promise, we listen to everyone.
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