Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello, I'm Kate Langbrook, host of No Filter. Today's guest is Jenny Haynes. Jenny has lived through things that are almost impossible to comprehend.
As a child, she survived years of horrific sexual abuse at the hands of her father by creating what she describes as multiple personalities, thousands of distinct voices and protectors who emerged to carry memories, fear, pain, and meant that she could survive.
In 2019, Jenny became the first person in Australian legal history to have those personalities accepted as evidence in a criminal trial against her father, testimony that helped convict him and sentence him to 45 years in prison. There's now a documentary about Jenny's life called We Are Jenny. But sitting across from her, what struck me wasn't just the enormity of what she survived.
It was her warmth, her humour, her intelligence, and the extraordinary tenderness she has for the people she created inside herself in order to survive it. In this conversation, Jenny talks openly about trauma, memory, survival, and the internal system she built to protect herself. She explains how those personalities came to exist, what they carried for her,
and why so many of them are still with her today. While we don't discuss the abuse Jenny endured as a child in graphic detail, it is still central to this conversation, so please listen mindfully.
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Chapter 2: What traumatic experiences led Dr. Jeni Haynes to create multiple personalities?
This is Jenny Haynes on No Filter. Dr Jenny Haynes. Welcome to No Filter. Thank you. It's a total pleasure to be here. Well, you have been on No Filter before. That's right. You had a most remarkable conversation with Mia. Yes. And Mia describes it as one of the most extraordinary conversations that she's ever had. Oh, wow. Wow. Thank you, Mia. And she met so many aspects of you. Yes, yes.
She had what we call the cavalcade of stars. Everybody flips in, says something and leaves. Which for people who don't know about you, you have... I have multiple personality disorder. It's more commonly termed dissociative identity disorder. But I prefer multiple personalities because it fits for my experience more than dissociated identities does.
Chapter 3: How did Dr. Jeni Haynes' personalities help her survive abuse?
And I know that some people get quite upset about me not using the current term. terminology. But that's the terminology for psychiatrists. Right. I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm living this. And if I want to have multiple personalities instead of dissociated identities, I don't see I'm causing anybody else any problems.
Well, that's interesting because you don't seem to be disassociated. You seem to be associated.
Exactly. For me... The way disassociated identities tends to be written is we took chunks of ourselves and pushed them away. We've dissociated. They're not part of us. Now, I understand that that's the experience for a large number of people with DID. And this is just me reflecting on my experience. I'm not speaking for the large body of people out there with DID.
But we didn't cut chunks of ourself and push them away. We actually created more of ourself.
Chapter 4: What was significant about Dr. Haynes' court case in 2019?
So we made people. Symphony made people, friends that would help her. And so we're not... Dissociated in a push away.
There's not a barrier.
Yeah. Right. So as we talk today, I have no doubt that a whole load of people are going to come and talk to you because they're all sitting with me in the doorway facing the outside world ready to talk. And that's what my life is like. It's like I walk around with... 2,681 other humans in my head.
Now that's the same number that you had when you spoke to Mia. That's right. Still the same number. That's right.
They, well, when we integrated everybody and we came down to a very small number, it was hell, never doing that again. But they were gone for a good nine years. And then when we started to make the statement, they came back to tell their stories. And they went and sat in what we call the integration corridor. And they're sitting there ready to integrate.
But it now takes from 2009 to 2019 to actually get Dad in court. So they're waiting 10 years. They're literally on hold. Can't go anywhere, can't do anything.
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Chapter 5: How does Dr. Haynes describe her internal system of personalities?
They're waiting to testify so that then they can integrate and go away. And when we did the testifying... We went back to everybody and said, well, you know, you were there for the bad times. Would you like to be here for some fun? And so people are actually sticking around to do something fun before they then take the step into integration and bringing down the numbers.
So when you say fun, you're talking about what I would call, from my perspective, vindication.
When I talk about fun, I'm talking about the ability to eat pineapple. That's how basic some of these altars are. I have a girl who only wants to eat pineapple. That's her fun thing to do. So it's a bit of a challenge. So everybody's coming to do something enjoyable because their life was, well, 49 years of hell. And I'm not going to say to them, little Ricky will not say to them,
it is your turn to integrate now without them actually coming out and doing something enjoyable. It might be go to the beach, it might be play Magic the Gathering, go and do a Dungeons and Dragons day, eat pineapple, eat banana. It could be anything.
So for people who may not know. Yep. Let's start at the beginning, hey. Let's start at the beginning. Yeah. So in your case, I'm assuming that this is often the case, that the alters come forward, these other personalities, because of trauma.
Yeah. So, oh, it's happening. Who is it? I'm Symphony. Oh, Symphony, hello. And I'm going to come and answer your question. Thank you. Oh, my goodness, you look even more beautiful in person than you do on the telly.
Oh. Ah, Symphony, the beauty of a four-year-old girl.
She's, oh, sorry. So I was born. And then I started to deal with the horrendous life with Dad. And Daddy was not groovy, but he was my job to look after. So I had to deal with Daddy. And there were things that happened along the way that made it hard for me to deal with Daddy. And I accidentally made other people to take care of what I called the distractings. Because it was so extreme? Yeah.
You can't do what daddy wants when you're inhaling his horrendous smell at the same time. So we brought somebody who could take the smell away. We created somebody who could take his noises away. We developed somebody who doesn't breathe. George Blair West, our psychiatrist, really freaked every time the boy who didn't breathe came for a visit because he doesn't breathe.
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Chapter 6: What challenges did Dr. Haynes face in integrating her personalities?
This has been lovely. Today, we're talking to Rosie O'Donnell.
I just want to tell you, this is one of the best interviews I've ever had.
If you love conversations that go deep and stories that stay with you, listen to No Filter. New episodes of No Filter drop every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts. When you went back to the house for the documentary, you, Jenny, were there.
When we went back for the walkthrough in 2015, I would say that when we walked up to the house, there would have been at least 250 altars in the body at the same time. And everyone is going, look, the rockery's still there. The fence on the side, although the fence itself has changed, it's in exactly the same position as where Dad put the barrier so we couldn't escape. Everything was the same.
And then we were able to go through and talk about what was different. But as to having a Jenny that was there, we had a frontrunner at the time and she was there. And this is the person that most, a frontrunner is the person that you would engage with if you were seeing Jenny. You meet me on the street and you say hello and you're talking to the Jenny that is the frontrunner.
Right.
And everybody else is behind. And what's that frontrunner Jenny like? The one in 2015, she was beautiful. That does not mean you are not beautiful. I walked right into that, didn't I? So the Jenny that we had, she was strong. She was powerful. She was determined. She was the one that just kept pushing. She was determined. She phoned the police and she was like, well, you know, what do you need?
Just let me know what you need. I'll do it. You know, she fell over and stopped being front runner Christmas of 2018. We had been promised a large amount of support for the trial that was due for February 2019. And in the lead up to Christmas, everybody that had promised to be there was phoning us and saying, sorry, we can't make it.
And were they witnesses or just supporters?
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Chapter 7: How did Dr. Haynes' experiences shape her understanding of trauma?
So self-diagnosed as having multiple personality disorder by the time we were 25. But the thing is that a lot of stuff happens in abusive households. And one of the things that gets missed is the abuser sets the narrative. If they're a parent, they're setting the narrative for the siblings. Right. And their partner. Yeah. Yeah.
And, well, in my case, both of my parents set the narrative and unfortunately it wasn't particularly groovy. But my siblings treated me in accordance to the rules that were set down by mum and dad. And they can't see me as I really am because they still have the lenses that were given to them in that home and in that family. And so that has led to, in many ways, the utter devastation of my life.
We really struggle with that because my parents got a divorce. I was 14. Everything should have been hunky-dory. But nobody actually looked at how do we perceive the children that we are walking away with at the divorce. And so at the divorce, it was like, well, we've split from him. Right, done. End of story. But it's not because...
My siblings grew up in a world where this stuff happening to me was normal. It was a punishment. That's what it was called. Originally games until Judas said his bit and then it turned to punishment overnight.
But you recognise that in yourself, which I imagine is part of making reparations to yourself. Yes.
Eric would tell you that we had a great deal of difficulty in therapy about the issue I've just spoken on. Yes. It's taken us over 23 years in therapy to get to a point where we could say what we've just said. And we wanted to put it in the book, but... We didn't want to cause any difficulties for my siblings because I love them both. I love them dearly.
And you know that you saying him trying to intervene that day, that's so significant, reminds me of, it was your psych who said this, where he was talking about how often perpetrators of violence or sexual abuse will choose a partner that is above all else compliant, he said. Yes. And then he said because then the message to the child... It's that I don't matter.
Yes, is that you're not worth saving. You don't matter.
This is why I sign all my autographs with You Matter, because survivors need to hear that message. And we've all come from a world where we don't matter. You know, we have to be honest. It isn't just Jenny Hens was killed. abused by Richard Haynes. There's a whole family around that. There's a whole world around that.
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Chapter 8: What was the impact of the documentary 'We Are Jeni' on Dr. Haynes' story?
And we wanted 367, but we were faced with, you need to get it down to a reasonable number. And I'm thinking, and 367 isn't reasonable. How many times did he attack me? How many thousands of times? And don't forget, there are hundreds of other attacks that aren't in that statement because we could not particularise when they happened.
We knew what happened, but we couldn't tell you whether it was 1977 or 1980. So if we couldn't find a hook to hang it on, we had to cut it already.
And each one of those is not just a date to you. No.
And it was very difficult. We had to choose. And we knew that there were people who weren't going to get hurt. We couldn't get him to plead guilty to everything. But we got 25, including a rape in 1980 that we nominated as the one that led to baby Gemma. And... He got 15 and a half years in prison for that rape alone. And that made us feel better. Not brilliant, but better.
So we got him to plead guilty to 25 things. And then he took us for the 16 things to be taken into account at sentencing. So 41 out of 85. And we're like, he's going to be out in five seconds. And we're going to have to do this again. And so instead of the altars going, right, we've testified. He's pled guilty. Let's integrate. No, no, no. We might need to do this again.
And we might need to be doing this for the rest of our lives. So hang around, guys. But we chose what he pled guilty to. We then helped compile from our statement the statement of agreed facts. Now, he never signed it, but he was supposed to. But, you know, why do what you're told? So I got to read and double-check the statement of agreed facts.
And then the, I think it was the 1st of March, pretty sure it was the 1st of March 2019, he walks into court and he pleads guilty. And it was whispered. And Judge Haggard had to keep saying, can we, excuse me, can you speak up? Oh, yeah, he was not guilty. And then he was guilty.
Guilty.
He didn't like that at all.
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