Nothing To Wear
The Smart Casual Dress Code, Decoded. Plus: How To Style Loafers This Winter
12 May 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What does 'Smart Casual' really mean?
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You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Whoever said orange is the new pink was seriously disturbed.
Florals for spring. Groundbreaking.
Oh my gosh! You have to do it. You live for fashion. Hello and welcome to Nothing To Wear, the podcast that solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe. I'm Leigh Campbell. Today we've got stylist Hayley Cooper back on the show. She was first on with Tam and everyone loved her advice.
So today we're talking fashion dilemmas, how to style loafers, the exact right length to hem your pants, and what the heck does smart casual actually mean? So let's get into it. So Hayley, welcome back to Nothing to Wear. I didn't get to chat to you last time and in case anyone missed the wonderful episode you did with Tam, who are you?
What do you do? So I'm a personal stylist here in Sydney and I've been doing this for about 16 years now. I work with everyday women and some men to build their wardrobes in a way that works for them, to increase their confidence, make things feel easy, should be all simple, fun and feel completely aligned to them.
Fun and aligned. I like that. Oh my God, 16 years before social media, before, you know, I mean, I guess at the start of online shopping, sort of.
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Chapter 2: How can I style loafers for winter?
Okay. And I think that's really interesting because it gives us such a good example of this is what can be making you feel outdated that people likely still have in their wardrobes. This is the timeless version to introduce something that feels more current but still really wearable.
And always hold on to maybe?
Exactly, yeah. And then there's the one that's more like trend-driven, which might be more if you want to explore with trend a little bit more, add some more personality, then this would be for you. Yeah, okay.
So I love those. Oh, my God, I need to find those. Not that I don't believe in the outdated section, but I'm ā
terrible with cleaning up my wardrobe so oftentimes I'll hold on to things for so long and I'll just be able to donate and everyone's like skinny legs back although they've been saying that for quite a while now so I've held on to all of them but yeah it's really interesting to see them all together yeah it gives a good visual what else what else there's a lot of the millennial things that pop up on my my Instagram me too and I'm in that category so I totally get it yes me too and there's a lot of I'm an elder millennial just okay
We're in the same category. Lots of tailored denim jackets, our crossbody bags, our tucking tops in and lots of these, I guess, pieces of content that are like, don't wear this because it's millennial. And then a lot of clients are coming to me and they're going, I feel so outdated. I feel like I'm dressing like a millennial as if it's a bad thing.
And I think those things still have a place just in smaller amounts maybe than what they did before.
That's so interesting, isn't it? So it's the younger generations that are kind of saying this screams millennial. Yes. Someone that works here at Mamma Mia, she took a very quick clip of me when we worked in another building. We were having a fire drill. We're on level 18. I whipped off my heels and I chucked on some ankle socks and my sneakers. And she was teasing me. She uploaded it to TikTok.
It's got millions and millions and millions of views because I said, I don't care what the kids say. And it's got all the millennials saying, thank you. I'm going to wear my ankle socks too. So it's like, you know what? I get it. I don't know about the fitted denim jacket, though. I agree there. I'm into the oversized, but it's so true.
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Chapter 3: What are the best budget-friendly loafers?
Yeah, it's so true.
So that's interesting.
I've got one fitted scan on the theatre that I'm holding onto because I'm hoping it comes back. Anything else on your social media that you're loving or seeing?
Yes, a lot of Hilary Duff. I know that a few months ago she kind of popped back into the world of things.
She's on my feed too.
Yeah, I follow her a lot because I love what she wears. She was who I absolutely loved in the early 2000s. It was so good. And I can see that as a stylist, I can see her evolution of her personal style happening. And I think that so many women get to that stage in their 30s and 40s where we're like, okay, we need to change things up a little bit. We need some difference.
And we go through our own style evolution there. So I can see she's doing that and it seems to match her energetically, which is really cool.
Fascinating. I wonder if she's doing that on her own. I'm sure she'd have a stylist for the big events. Oh my gosh, I loved her too. And I love her a lot. You're right. She's kind of our generation. We've kind of grown up with her and her style. So before we get to the dilemmas that you're going to help answer, because we have had so many submitted that we can't get to it.
Tell me what you're wearing today. For those listening, they can picture it, but what are you wearing and why did you choose that for your outfit today?
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Chapter 4: What mid-range loafers are recommended?
Oh, thank you. This has been lovely. Today, we're talking to Rosie O'Donnell.
I just want to tell you, this is one of the best interviews I've ever had.
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Chapter 5: Which high-end loafers should I consider?
Hayley, help us. Everyone needs help. We have been inundated with questions, so hopefully we get to a lot of them, but let's start with one that so many people had different versions of. What do I wear to a smart casual outing or a smart casual dress code? What does smart casual actually mean? What are examples?
So I think this is one where a lot of women get really stuck because we're not dressing for work. We're not wearing our clothes down to the grocery store. It's not that sort of category. It's this kind of weird in-between, almost like social dressing, I would call it.
So I think having the wardrobe staples that you can always rely on naturally, yes, your jeans, a pair of boots, a pair of sneakers, some fun fashion tops come in here. So at the moment that could look like a fun colour, something with an interesting neckline, lace, mesh, texture. Okay. Any of that kind of category pairs really easily into this sort of space. Yes. Some satin pants.
There's a lot of those around at the moment as an alternative to jeans. Leather pants, that's another one. Some fun jackets like your tan suede bomber jackets. Those are starting to come around into stores quite a bit.
Yeah.
It's having items that you already own that can fit into that category and could potentially transfer into your workwear as well that you can easily put together into really simple outfits. So I guess a formula for that might be, say, your favourite jeans, whatever cut, whatever colour they might be. Your fun fashion top, so your texture or your coloured piece. And then your interesting boots.
Maybe that's something that's like a chocolate suede with a square toe and a low block heel. And then maybe that's where you do your tan suede bomber jacket or your leather jacket or something in that kind of category.
Yeah, okay. It's interesting, isn't it? Because I was saying to you off air that like you'll tick, you know, a lot of websites will have, you know, what's the occasion or whatever and you tick smart casual and then you just get such an array and I'm like, well, that's more confusing.
It's funny, I always think smart casual like jeans and a blazer because the casual is the jeans and the blazer is the smart.
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Chapter 6: How do I choose the right length for my pants?
Someone wants the Goldilocks of bags. So a stylish bag, but they can take it to work. It fits lunch and laptop, but it's not a daggy backpack or a briefcase. I mean, I think briefcases are cool. So cool work bags.
Okay. So there's one that I've come across a lot at the moment. It is actually a backpack, but it's neoprene. And it comes in some really nice colorways too. It's by Preen, the brand, and it's called the Haven Backpack. So I've started to see this coming into David Jones, Iconic, a few stores online, and
And a couple of clients have bought this and they absolutely love it because it replaces their daggy backpack. Okay. But it still feels really practical. They can fit absolutely everything in there and it's really lightweight.
I need one of those.
They're really nice, actually. They're really cool.
But I'll look like Dora the Explorer. No, I'm joking. My back needs a backpack, so it's good to know they're not all really daggy anymore. This is one that I desperately need help with, and I kind of know, but then I don't know. How can I tell the difference between a knit that's going to last more than one season and a knit that will ball after one wear?
Any pointers on what I should be looking for on the tag rematerials and composition that would be helpful?
So ideally, anything that has cotton to it will last way longer than anything that doesn't. I would avoid your acrylics and polyesters. They will just ball up really quickly. But so can wool and so can cashmere too. So that's still going to happen.
That's what's confused me. I've got some that are, you know, really affordable and some that are really expensive. So it's not always a price tag thing as well.
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