Four years after the start of the global pandemic, COVID-19 is no longer a global health emergency, but in the U.S., every week, the virus is still hospitalizing 15,000 people and killing a thousand. Today, we look back – and ahead – with former New York Times global health reporter Donald G. McNeil Jr., author of the new book The Wisdom of Plagues: Lessons from 25 years of Covering Pandemics. He and Kara discuss the conflicting findings surrounding the virus origin, including the lab leak theory currently being investigated by Congress, and grapple with whether we need a Pentagon for Disease in the future (addressing a question posed by former White House Chief of Staff and Obama Ebola Czar Ron Klain). Plus – McNeil speaks out about his own controversy: his 2021 departure from The New York Times. Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on social media. We’re on Instagram/Threads as @karaswisher and @nayeemaraza Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.