Donald Trump has said journalist Maggie Haberman is like his “psychiatrist” — a remark she dismisses as a meaningless and failed attempt at flattery. Yet Haberman does have a deep understanding of what makes the former president tick, cultivated through years of covering City Hall in New York City and then Donald J. Trump for The New York Times. Her recent book, “Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America,” tells Trump’s origin story and chronicles his unexpected takeover of the Republican party and his consolidation of power in Washington. “He’s not a political genius,” Haberman tells Kara, “he is a genius about human emotions and a certain darkness in what animates people.” So will Trump run again in 2024? Haberman says that “he’s backed himself into a corner where he has to,” but she’s not sure whether she'll be covering him. Before the interview, Kara and Nayeema talk about the newsmakers: Elon Musk’s about-face on the Twitter deal and Peter Thiel’s financing foray into key Senate races and ... a conservative dating app. You can find Kara and Nayeema on Twitter @karaswisher and @nayeema. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ask this episode

“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.