NYT Bestselling Historian: Why George Washington Was the Greatest Leader Who Ever Lived — H. W. Brands

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Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci 30 min 2 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 4 months ago
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What qualities made George Washington a great leader?

H.W. Brands 0:00
Washington stood morally head and shoulders above them and above everybody else. He's also seen as somebody who set aside personal interest to take up command of the Continental Army. He agreed to serve without pay. And in fact, he lost a lot of money as a result of the American Revolution. He lost a lot of money from the time he spent as president of the United States. But he was willing to do that. It really had to do with this code of honor that Washington established for himself. He said, this is how an honorable man behaves. He puts the interests of his country ahead of the interests of himself. He was a master of silence.

How did Washington's personal sacrifices impact his leadership?

H.W. Brands 0:33
He was surrounded by people who were just in love with their own voices and so on. Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, everybody at the Constitutional Convention of 1787. This is a whole bunch of lawyers and politicos who go and they meet in this room for four months during the summer of 1787. And they're debating, debating, debating. And Washington is sitting there, but he says not a word. And precisely because he is so silent, people think he must be deeper than he is. He knows more than he is saying. They all sort of lowered themselves to the same level of competing voices. Whereas Washington's silence put him above them.
Anthony Scaramucci 1:07
Welcome to Open Book.

What was Washington's code of honor and how did it influence his actions?

Anthony Scaramucci 1:10
Joining us today is best-selling author, award-winning historian H.W. Brands. The title of the book, American Patriarch. And it's The Life of George Washington. And what a great book. And, Professor, I have to tell you, I am a huge fan of yours. I've read several of your books. Most recently, and you wrote it a while back, Traitor to His Class. What a great title that was, too. And this is also a great title.

Why did Washington choose to remain silent during the Constitutional Convention?

Anthony Scaramucci 1:38
But these are consequential figures. Roosevelt wrote about Reagan. Of course, Ben Franklin. Why George Washington now?
H.W. Brands 1:48
Well, I confess that I was aware that America was approaching its 250th anniversary of independence, and there would be interest in the people who got it all started. Except I'd been thinking about Washington for a long time. I've written around Washington. I've never been writing directly on Washington as the subject of a biography. And part of it was I just couldn't quite figure him out. So I thought finally I would take a shot at it. Did you figure him out, sir? I think so. I think so.
Anthony Scaramucci 2:17
So what did you figure out? Go ahead. Tell me about the man that I was told could never tell a lie, who told his dad that he chopped down the sherry tree, the father of our country. It's such a great title, by the way. We'll get to the rationale behind the title, but tell me who I should be thinking of when I hear George Washington and what I learned about when I was in kindergarten.
H.W. Brands 2:42
So Benjamin Franklin, a contemporary of Washington's, was often called... the archetype of the self-made American.

How did Washington's upbringing shape his character and ambitions?

H.W. Brands 2:50
In some ways, Washington was the same sort of approach. Ended up with a different product, but Washington became the person he thought he should be. As a young man, he developed this sense of the kind of reputation he wanted to have. He was ambitious, but he didn't know exactly what his ambition was for. He was also, and this is very significant, he was well off. He was a member of the Virginia Gentry. And I spent some time in the book talking about what this meant, who these people were. And it was a class of people that lived, well, in large part by the labor of other people, including their slaves. But it was also a class that lived by a code of honor. And for them, the respect of others, the admiration of others was a really big deal.
H.W. Brands 3:39
And Washington, he wasn't the eldest child. He wasn't going to be the inheritor of the big estate. He was going to have to make something of himself. And what he decided to make of himself was this person that people could look up to, that he himself could look up to. So he had this idea of the kind of character he wanted to be. He wanted to be admired. He wanted to be respected. And the way to do that was to do the things that would make people admire you and respect you. And so he set for himself this model of the person he wanted to be.

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