Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Rosalind Chow on How Sponsors Fuel Your Career Growth | EP 602
Thu, 24 Apr 2025
What if the key to unlocking your next big career move isn’t just mentorship—but sponsorship?In this episode of Passion Struck, host John R. Miles sits down with Dr. Rosalind Chow, a leading organizational behavior expert at Carnegie Mellon and author of The Doors You Can Open. Together, they unpack the transformative power of sponsorship—where people in positions of power actively advocate, endorse, and open doors for others in ways that mentorship alone cannot.Click here for the full show notes: https://passionstruck.com/rosalind-chow-sponsors-fuel-your-career-growth/Join the Ignition Room!Join the new Passion Struck Community! - The Ignition Room: https://station.page/passionstruckKey Takeaways:The difference between mentorship and sponsorship—and why the latter creates greater opportunityHow sponsorship helped Kim Ng become the first female GM in Major League BaseballThe hidden ways bias shows up in networking and decision-makingWhat it means to "leverage your power" to lift others without risking your own standingWhy trust, social capital, and influence matter more than adviceHow organizations can embed sponsorship into their culture for lasting changeFor more information on Dr. Rosalind Chow: https://www.rosalindchow.com/Sponsors:Factor Meals: http://factormeals.com/factormeals50off and use code “FACTOR MEALS 50 OFF”Rosetta Stone: Unlock 25 languages for life at “ROSETTASTONE.com/passionstruck.”Prolon: Reset your health with 15% off at “ProlonLife.com/passionstruck.”Mint Mobile: Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at “MINT MOBILE dot com slash PASSION.”Hims: Start your journey to regrowing hair with Hims. Visit hims.com/PASSIONSTRUCK for your free online visit.Quince: Discover luxury at affordable prices with Quince. Enjoy free shipping and 365-day returns at quince.com/PASSIONFor more information on advertisers and promo codes, visit Passion Struck Deals.Speaking Engagements & WorkshopsAre you looking to inspire your team, organization, or audience to take intentional action in their lives and careers? I’m available for keynote speaking, workshops, and leadership training on topics such as intentional living, resilience, leadership, and personal growth. Let’s work together to create transformational change. Learn more at johnrmiles.com/speaking.Episode Starter PacksWith over 500 episodes, it can be overwhelming to know where to start. We’ve curated Episode Starter Packs based on key themes like leadership, mental health, and personal growth, making it easier for you to dive into the topics you care about. Check them out at passionstruck.com/starterpacks.Catch More of Passion Struck:My solo episode on The Mattering Mindset in Love – Choose the Love You DeserveCan't miss my episode with Jennifer B. Wallace on the Consequences of Prioritizing Achievements Over MatteringMy episode with The Art of Listening: How to Make People Feel Like They MatterCatch my interview with Laurie Santos on How to Matter in a Busy WorldListen to my solo episode on Fading into Insignificance: The Impact of Un-Mattering in Our Interconnected EraIf you liked the show, please leave us a review—it only takes a moment and helps us reach more people! Don’t forget to include your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally.How to Connect with John:Connect with John on Twitter at @John_RMilesFollow him on Instagram at @John_R_MilesSubscribe to our main YouTube Channel and to our YouTube Clips ChannelFor more insights and resources, visit John’s websiteWant to explore where you stand on the path to becoming Passion Struck? Take our 20-question quiz on Passionstruck.com and find out today!
Chapter 1: Who are the hosts and guest of this episode?
Coming up next on Passion Struck.
To me, mattering is knowing that other people would notice if you were gone. That's something I was thinking a lot more about. And so when we sponsor other people, we're essentially saying the world is better for having this person in it. And if you weren't aware of them, that would be very sad for all of us.
Chapter 2: What is the difference between mentorship and sponsorship?
And so when you think about people who don't get sponsored, basically, they're not having someone going out and telling other people about how much they matter and how much they should miss them if they were not there.
Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself.
If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become passion struck. Welcome to episode 602 of passion struck.
Whether you're joining for the first time or returning to the show, I want to thank you. This is more than a podcast. It's a movement to explore what it means to live intentionally, grow meaningfully, and make what truly matters matter most. So let me start with this. What if career success wasn't just about talent or hard work but about who is willing to open the door for you?
What if the greatest barrier to inclusion wasn't lack of ability but lack of visibility? And what if every one of us, regardless of our title,
has the power to change someone else's trajectory simply by seeing them today i'm joined by dr rosalind chow acclaimed organizational psychologist researcher at carnegie mellon and author of the powerful new book the doors you can open a new way to network build trust and use your influence to create a more inclusive workplace this is a conversation about more than networking
It's about the power of sponsorship, stepping beyond advice to actively reshape how others are seen. In today's episode, we discuss why sponsorship, not mentorship, is the missing piece of equity. What we can learn from the story of Kim Eng and Derek Jeter. How listening, not advising, is the first step to inclusion. Why sponsorship is a courageous act.
and a risky one, how every leader, every person can become a force for mattering. If you've ever felt unseen in your career or wanted to champion others more powerfully, this episode is for you. And in case you missed it, earlier in the week, I spoke with Yonge Mingur Rinpoche about discovering peace through panic and awakening the goodness already within you.
And in my Friday solo episode, I explored the hidden link between serendipity and mattering. and how unexpected moments of meaning often arise when we're most present. As part of that journey, we also launched The Ignition Room, a powerful new community space for PassionStruck listeners to connect, reflect, and grow intentionally together.
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Chapter 3: What was a defining moment in Dr. Rosalind Chow's career?
I proposed a program that I wanted to be unapologetically about the black experience in America. So basically a lot of the sessions are very forthright about laying out the research on what it is like to be black, what it's like to be stereotyped, to experience bias.
And it was, I think that approach actually ended up working very well for me in the sense that it was disarming, I think, for a lot of the participants. They had never been in a space where one, they were surrounded by other leaders who looked just like them and who had incredibly similar experiences to the ones that they had. And it was
very affirming for them to finally hear that a lot of the questions and uncertainties that they had about how they were being treated, that it wasn't just in their heads, that it was something that had been validated by research, but also that others like them had shared those experiences. And it was an incredible bonding experience for them. And it was an incredible bonding experience for me.
I was incredibly lucky that in being willing to open up about their experiences, they were willing also to open their hearts to me, because then I mentioned, right, I'm not black. And I would never claim to truly understand that experience, but I think they could tell that I was incredibly passionate about helping people to make sense of that experience and to Not just change them.
So that was the thing that was really important to me about this program was to ensure that people in the program knew that the problem was not them. The program was not some sort of remedial program where like they had things that they were lacking. The problem was the social environment around them.
And that was where the sponsorship component came in, where we brought in corporate leaders from the region. and had them engage with program participants in what was called a mentorship relationship. But in reality, what we were trying to do was get those leaders, many of whom were white, to understand that mentorship is great.
I'm not saying mentorship is bad, because that's not what I'm saying at all, but it's not enough. And that sponsorship is really something that they could be doing, more of us could be doing, and is for many people, the difference between being able to advance and not. And so I think they could see how much that meant to me personally and how much I really wanted all of them to succeed.
And high cohort one, truly, they're very special to me.
I want to lean more into this and explore it a little bit more, and then I'll go into other aspects of your book. But I think this is an important reflection point for people. So I had a previous guest on the program, happens to be a golf coach. And one of the things that was inspirational for me about this discussion is I came out of it with him encouraging me to read the story of Malcolm X.
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Chapter 4: How was the Executive Leadership Academy designed and why?
Oh, I think I want to be clear that I'm not saying that I don't take the, try to take the perspective of other people. That's not at all what I'm saying. What I do want to caution people on, however, is that this idea of just because we read it and we can read as much as we want and ironic coming to this statement as an academic, right, who my whole
Profession is about reading and learning is that we can do all those things and it still may not be enough to truly be, to truly be a part of that group or that to have that experience. And I don't think those are contradictory. But I do want to caution people from coming away and being like, oh, because I've read all these things, now I truly understand what it's like.
Because I also feel like that's intellectually a little dishonest too.
Yeah, it's almost impossible. It's a great thing to shift your perspective from understanding the plight that others face. But until you walk a day in their shoes, you don't really realize the long-term impacts it's had on them from the day they were born up through now. I wasn't trying to go there with it.
I was just trying to say that books like that and I think the reason Sean encourages so many people to read them is it just gives a good historical perspective in detail of all the events that made Malcolm feel less than and that he wasn't being seen, valued as a human being and why he became so resentful and then
took on such a large cause and became so passionate about doing something to encourage change.
Yeah. Okay. So we're having different assumptions about where people are in their journey, I guess, is where we're perhaps miscalibrated. You're thinking about someone who's starting from a much, a starting line that's maybe a little bit further back than what I was assuming.
well i think for listeners we've got all kinds of listeners of various types on the show and for me i'm probably a little bit more accustomed to asking questions and thinking about this because my niece and nephew are black and so i have
It's opened my eyes through hearing their stories and seeing their journeys, what it's like for them and what it's been like for my brother and sister-in-law to raise them. But anyway.
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Chapter 5: What challenges did Dr. Chow face leading the leadership program for Black professionals?
Yes. And as I was reading about this in your introduction, what was significant to me was she's in front of all these reporters in her first question and answer session. And instead of asking her about how she was going to lead the team and about her strategy, et cetera, they started asking her more questions about perseverance and Why did you find that to be so significant?
Because they wouldn't have asked that of a male general manager. Like even after you make it to the top for her, at least in this role, she'd been wanting this role for probably over a decade, had been qualified to take that role probably for over a decade. And even when she got there, she was being treated differently because of who she was and what she represents for so many people.
And that's an additional burden that I think a lot of people don't necessarily experience if you're not the only person in a particular space. Success, I think success comes with all sorts of responsibilities. I think we all seem to tend to understand that. But it comes with even more when you look different.
And you keep going into this story, and I think it's a good one to make this distinction between mentorship and sponsorship, because Derek Jeter ended up playing a pivotal role for her as a sponsor. So maybe through this lens of their relationship, you can show what's different between a sponsorship type of relationship like they had versus a mentorship one.
Oh, absolutely. And then that's actually why I opened the book with her example in particular. It helps that also she was a person of color, a woman in a male dominated sport where in leadership positions, people tend to be white men. But what really drew me to Kim Ang's example is that there is no version where somebody is going to argue that what she needed was a mentor.
She did not need more mentorship. She had so much more experience Like both inside a team and within baseball, but outside of the team, she worked in the command, a commissioner's office. She looked, she worked in the main league offices. She had so much perspective about baseball, just from so many different angles in a way that other GM candidates didn't.
She had been a part of the game for basically since she graduated from college. She did not need mentorship. And what she needed was a sponsor, right? She needed someone who was willing to step up and say, look, you all think this person is risky. If you just took her gender or her race out of the equation, there is no question that she would be the most qualified person for this role.
But somebody had to stand up and say that.
That's interesting. I was so glad to hear you write about Derek Jeter because I used him in one of the chapters in my book as well.
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Chapter 6: How can listening exercises improve understanding and inclusion?
Yeah, on the plus side, well, now Carl Neuhauser is known as the scout who correctly identified that Derek Jeter was going to turn out to be a big deal. So, you know, Derek Jeter, he was already famous, so it's unclear how much more famous he could have gotten. But his reputation also benefited from elevating Kim Ang, especially when she ended up
doing so well for the marlins people were it's a losing team she's not only is she the only the first and only woman gm that has been hired she like couldn't have been given a worse team to start off with she had to turn them around and she was making some pretty significant strides in doing so i think that really elevated derek cheater in the sense that was an indication that like
he's not just doing this for the optics he actually has a really deep understanding of the game as you would obviously hope he would but that he also could see potential where other people didn't so that lends him more credibility he ended up getting inducted into the hall of fame i think either the year after he hired kim or maybe the same year but
One of the things that people remarked upon in getting in terms of his selection was not just his athletic history and performance, but also all the remarkable contributions he made off the field and contributing to the inclusivity and diversity of baseball was definitely one of those things.
So the thing that you can get from being a sponsor is that you start getting known for one, having a good eye for talent, right? But also your values are very clear. They're clarified in terms of you're showing who you are because you're willing to put skin in the game on the things that you care about. And so that also raises people's status because you're now more of a known entity to them.
They understand who you are, what you care about, and that's a way to get status. You've shown that you Are trying to help the group, not just yourself that's another huge way of getting status so there's a lot of research that basically shows that.
The more we put into elevating other people, the more we personally benefit from doing that kind of thing and it's not just that the other person benefits right so. Sponsors and proteges both benefit from sponsorship, but so do audiences and so does the larger social ecosystem.
So I'm a huge fan of sponsorship because I see it as one of these things where it takes something that could be seen as zero sum and you make it into something that is actually expanding value for everyone.
Well, thank you for sharing that. And when I think back of Derek Jeter being Except in the Hall of Fame, I don't have the statistics correct, but I believe he got the most votes of anyone of all time. That's right. If I had my research in the back of my head right and was a first time, first ballot Hall of Famer.
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Chapter 7: What does the story of Kim Ng illustrate about sponsorship vs mentorship?
And if you're part of a team, company, or community looking to build a culture of intentionality and purpose, I'd love to speak with you. Visit johnrmiles.com slash speaking to learn more about how I work with organizations around the world to create lasting transformation.
Coming up next on Passion Strike, I sit down with Tom Schaar, Olympic silver medalist and skateboarding legend, to talk about resilience risk and what it means to push limits, both on the ramp and in life.
At the end of the day, I'm very lucky that this gets to be my job. And I remind myself of that every day, not to ever really lose my mind over skating or anything like that. I do take it seriously.
pretty seriously and i do try and do the best that i can always but my job is what i wanted to do when i was a kid so i'm very lucky in that aspect of it but i think a lot of random little kids will come up to me at the skate park and They tell me how cool it is that I get to do this as my job, and that always reminds me that I'm very lucky that I'm not doing something else.
Hopefully, if someone watches me skate, it can bring them a little bit of joy or try and inspire kids to be better. I'll try my best to be a good example.
Until then, remember, the fee for this show is simple. If you found value, share it. But more importantly, live it, because knowledge alone doesn't change the world. Action does. Until next time, live life passion-struck.
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