Chapter 1: What happened during the Alex Pretti shooting in Minneapolis?
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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
And I'm Scott Galloway.
This is an emergency pod. We do these from time to time with news, especially if it's breaking. And obviously what's happened over the weekend in Minnesota has been heinous in many ways, in all ways, actually. So we had to jump on here to talk about the situation. Tensions are exploding in reaction to federal agents shooting and killing.
37-year-old ICU nurse Alex Preddy in Minneapolis on Saturday. This is the second fatal shooting by federal agents this month, with Governor Tim Walz calling for Trump to halt ICE operations in the state. Meanwhile, the Trump administration is trying to cast blame on the victim and local Democratic lawmakers.
Border Control Command Gregory Bovino appeared on CNN's State of the Union with Dana Bash earlier. And here's what that tiny, horrible man had to say.
All of the video that we have seen shows him documenting it with his cell phone, which is a lawful thing to do. And the only time he seemed to interact with law enforcement is when they went after him when he was trying to help an individual who law enforcement pushed down. So where do you have the evidence to show that he was trying to impede that law enforcement operation?
Sure, Dan, at first he was there in the scene. He was in the scene actively impeding and assaulting law enforcement to the point. But that's not illegal. He wasn't impeding it. He was filming it, which is a legal thing to do in the United States of America. Dan, let's don't freeze frame adjudicate this now.
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Chapter 2: How does cellphone video challenge the official narrative?
And what the frame shows is that one, this individual was clearly exercising just free speech.
Mm-hmm.
All free speech is not exempt. You know, if you incite violence, that's not free speech. But it's difficult to see how in any way this individual was inciting violence. He was just filming what was happening. He moved to help protect somebody or comfort them after they had been knocked down. So his First Amendment rights were clearly violated. Two, the Second Amendment is the right to bear arms.
He was carrying a weapon, which he had a legal license for carry for. The gun was removed from him. He did not take out the gun. He did not wave it at anybody. It was in his waistband. It was taken out. And then so his First and Second Amendment rights were violated in about 15 seconds. And then a couple of things happened.
that I noticed that were even more disturbing were, one, when a gunshot goes off, these quote-unquote trained federal agents scattered. When your gun goes off, you're supposed to make sure the person you think is firing the gun, you look for their hands, you look for the gun. They did none of that. They scattered.
And Representative Seth Moulton, who's a veteran and I believe a Marine who served in, I believe it was Iraq, said that if this had happened in the middle of of a combat zone. And an enemy combatant who had been disarmed was treated this way. The officers and the enlisted men involved in that murder would be court-martialed.
So the rules of engagement are now more reckless and more violent in the suburbs of Minneapolis than they are in Mogadishu during a war. So this has gone so far. And this notion that This has anything to do with the Constitution. Everyone is now ignoring the Constitution.
The other word that comes to my mind is cowardice, and that is Trump and Secretary Noem are perpetrating violence under the auspices that it has something to do with immigration. They want a third party that will take the blame or be the shock absorber for this depravity, and that is an agency full of masked, secret police. I mean, they're not even taking responsibility for this violence.
They're trying to keep it in arms.
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Chapter 3: What is the political reaction to the shooting in Washington?
And I have to tell you one thing, the power of digital is really strong. People see it. I don't understand why these people don't think cell phones exist in this world. The second part is the silence from our business community, the silence from these people. They went to the White House last night. Could they just beg off to go to the Melania screening, which nobody wants to see?
Could they say something publicly? The silence of our business people, especially the tech people, and then many people like Bill Ackman, as usual, because he can't shut his diarrhea mouth. Could not help but blame everybody but who shot this man, which were these officers. Obviously, Minnesota has moved this time because they learned from the first, and this is a murder is what this is.
They learned from the first one that they tried to take evidence. They scattered, as you said. You can't leave the scene of murder. of a shooting like that, a fatal shooting. And then the last thing I would say is the citizens of Minnesota, I'm wearing a Minnesota Star Tribune. I'd have to say the press is doing a great job there, the Minnesota Star Tribune and others.
These are citizens that are not going to take this shit. And I know you call for leaders, but we are the leaders, right? Citizens are the leaders, not our politicians. I will say the Democrats had, especially AOC, especially, you know, all of them were very strong about what was going on. The Minnesota Democrats, People were actually quite under control over what's happening.
Governor Walz, I thought, conducted himself really well. The police officers of the state in Minnesota are horrified. You can see that. And they conducted themselves really well. The only people conducting themselves like the thugs and fascists they are are the Trump administration. And they will not outlive, the shame will outlive them of what they've done. And they don't care.
So that's the only problem here.
Yeah, and especially last week, there was a lot of talk about, I thought, how can I take my time here and make it effective? So I spent a lot of time when I was on these panels talking about how the Islamic Republic is executing people on the street. And my colleague, Catherine Dillon, reminded me, she said, Scott, you realize that
Our government is executing people on the streets of Minneapolis right now, which was a very puncturing point. And just to, if it's okay with you, move to potential ideas around how to counter ICE. Timothy Snyder, I always go to his feed and to Heather Cox Richardson to try and find some clarity.
Amazing stuff from them. Yeah, go ahead.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of the Trump administration's response?
And here's our power, Cara. Our economy is 70% consumer-driven. Consumers actually have more power, not in signs or in guns or even in their vote right now, they have it in the power of the purse in that a very small change in behavior could have an enormous effect. And that is nothing in modern American history moves policy faster. Not marches, not speeches, just math.
And then if you think about what you could do here, If wealthy households took their spending down 10%, and middle class and lower income households, which have a difficult time reducing their spend, took it down 5%, you would take GDP negative almost overnight. And then... It's hard because it requires coordination. It's risky, especially for people living paycheck to paycheck.
But that's exactly why it works. And that is power fears withdraw more than resistance because resistance is noisy, but withdrawal is expensive. And it's a question around what actually works. And the history and the data, I believe, are not ambiguous. When nothing moves, everyone listens. And that's not ideology, it's economics. And that you don't need permission to opt out.
And in a system, capitalism built entirely on participation, the most radical act in capitalism isn't protest. It's non-participation. If you wanted the fastest blue line path, and there might even be a simpler way, I believe if you could convince America, the entire economy now is built on AI. If you could convince a bunch of Americans to cancel their chat GPT or open AI accounts.
And all of a sudden, OpenAI had to announce that their subscriptions had fallen off a cliff. That would ripple into Nvidia. That would ripple into Microsoft. And these are the people that Trump cares about. And this is what the S&P, this is what the economy cares about.
I see this point. I don't agree with you about protests. I think they do. It's all part of the same package. It's aggressive media who follows this and reports on things. It is these protests. Because I do think people putting their lives on the line in the street matters. I think it does.
I don't mean to diminish it. I worry it's more cinematic than effective because I don't think the Trump administration cares.
I think it's different in this new environment of video everywhere. I do think it is effective. Yep.
And I do think it – Definitely from a policing and an accountability standpoint. Correct.
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Chapter 5: How are Democrats responding to the shooting and ICE operations?
The Apple brand stands for more. So a lot of people wanted to give up their iPhones. Like, I'm going to give up. Let me just tell you, the founder of Google is dating a MAGA influencer and is quite right wing now. So there's nowhere to go, unfortunately. And that's the problem is we have been held captive by these men boys who are now deciding they want to,
dabble in fascism or at least turn a blind eye to it. And so part of me is like, what do you do here, right?
What do you... What I'm suggesting is, and again, I've struggled with this my whole life, the difference between being right and being effective. And we're angry, and I get it. Protesting is powerful. Promising them that there will be an accountability. And I've said this, I think there should be something equivalent to the Nuremberg trials after this is all over. I agree.
And to make it clear that once we're back in power, which we will be, this is going to happen. And the statute of limitations on murder is? Zero. Never. However, it's the boring shit that moves the needle. And here's something really boring that would stop this.
If we could convince half of Americans who are planning to buy an iPhone in the next 60 days to not buy it, just put it off, and we could get 10% of existing ChatGPT subscribers to cancel their subscription, this ends. These are the people that he cares about, and this is about the market.
Look at the only time he's blinked, when the Japanese bond market started taking our 10-year yields up, and when tariffs took the markets down. This is how he responds. It's not cinematic, it's not romantic, it's not gonna be written up in great history novels. But if you could figure out a way
to basically kick a small number of companies related to the tech economy that account for 40% of the S&P right now and who are the people he cares about. If all of a sudden, if you took all of your money out of any JP Morgan affiliated bank and transferred it to a local regional bank,
If you canceled all of your streaming media platforms, if you canceled OpenAI and Anthropic and you said, I am not upgrading my Apple phone, and there was a real movement, they registered and they had to disclose it in their earnings calls, this shit would come to an end pronto.
Yeah, it's an injury. They have played along with this Trump stuff for a very long time, much farther.
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Chapter 6: What alternative responses are being suggested beyond protests?
And you're absolutely right. I do want to make one more point. And I think Saturday Night Live did this really well. These are white people getting killed. And this is something the African-American communities talked about, the brutality they get in the things. And I thought if you want to look at anything, there was a terrific example. Skit on it about that, which I thought was quite effective.
Let's not forget to note that. In any case, before we go, Alex Preddy's parents said in a statement, it was the most dignified thing I've ever, I wouldn't know what to do if this had happened to my, any of my children. Please get the truth out about our son. He was a good man. And with that in mind, I want to play a clip of Alex in his role as an ICU nurse.
He was serving veterans, honoring a deceased veteran. Let's watch.
Today we remember that freedom is not free. We have to work at it, nurture it, protect it, and even sacrifice for it. May we never forget and always remember our brothers and sisters who have served so that we may enjoy the gift of freedom. So in this moment, we remember and give thanks for their dedication and selfless service to our nation in the cause of our freedom.
In this solemn hour, we render our honor and our gratitude.
Yeah, I think that just about says it. Freedom is not free.
Yeah, I hope. You're right. This is just so rattling on so many levels. But Heather Cox Richardson has also said we face darker times. I'd be shocked if at some point there isn't a future president that gives Alex the same type of dignified send-off that he gave that veteran. I do think this is a turning point. Incredibly upsetting.
And this isn't about – I can already see what's going to happen. They're going to come out and acknowledge – a tiny bit. They'll say, yes, we've had to scale up ICE because of the massive wave invasion, and they do need more training. And that's like saying that the guards at Dachau needed more training.
This is a systemic structural depravity straight from the president and his sycophants who are unqualified and also seem to wade in this type of cruel and strange behavior.
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