'We need some daydreaming': lawyer Theodor Meron on surviving the Holocaust, and issuing Netanyahu’s arrest warrant
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What is the historical context of anti‑Jewish hatred discussed at the start of the episode?
Hello and welcome to Political Thinking. We risk a repeat of what was seen in the nineteen thirties, say those who worry aloud about the spread of anti-Jewish hatred here in Britain. That, others contend, is to use the horror of the Holocaust to try to silence criticism of the horrors which Israel, the world's only Jewish state, is now responsible for. One man is better placed than most to judge these competing arguments. He's my guest. Guest on political thinking, Theodore or Ted Meron, whose book, A Thousand Miracles, from surviving the Holocaust to judging genocide, tells the extraordinary story of a boy who was liberated from a Nazi labor camp, went on to be a human rights lawyer in what became Israel, served for two decades as the president of the UN War Crimes Tribunals, and latterly was an advisor to the International Criminal Court.
in the court when its prosecutor took its most controversial ever decision, the issuing of arrest warrant for Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.
Theodore Merron, Ted Merin. Thank you for joining me on political thinking. We're going to talk about that very controversial case that you were involved in, but I want to begin by talking about anti-Semitism now. You're in an almost unique position to judge whether there are any similarities with what you grew up with back in the nineteen thirties and the growth of anti-Semitism that it's argued we're seeing now. What do you think the similarities and differences are?
As a child, I was really not aware of anti Semitism at school. I went to a state school. Most of the children were Catholic, not Jewish. I remember constant playing of Chopin's Martian Polonese military and so on. I remember all the holidays, celebrations of the great victories of Poland over the Soviet Army in the twenties, but I did not suffer or was even aware of antisemitism. Holocaust was quite a different beast. It was the first ever industrial genocide.
In many ways the story of your life is the story of someone who escaped the Holocaust and went on to develop that international human rights law, which I I want to discuss. But before we do What do you say to people who say, Look, we're seeing some of what we saw in the nineteen thirties here in Britain? It's still very, very different.
The difference lies in the fact that it seems to me that the British government, the Prime Minister quite frequently speak very loudly in a very articulate way. In a very persuasive way against the growth and existence and manifestations of anti Semitism. In Poland, to the extent that there were pogroms, there were anti Jewish acts, there were hooligans in the streets who would laugh to beat up Jewish boys or Jewish children. At that time there was no public reaction. The mayor of a city or of a village, certain not cabinet ministers, would not speak about it. So I appreciate the fact that the government of the United Kingdom speaks loudly and clearly. about the phenomenon of anti Semitism which is frightening and it's good that the police is uh doing something about it, that people are trying to see whether in terms of the existing law it might be strengthened or be might be more effective.
But uh situations were quite different.
As we'll go on to discuss, you think that the Netanyahu government may well be guilty of war crimes. You've been highly critical of the policies of Israeli governments in the past as well. But do you think there's a danger that demonization of Israel has contributed to an atmosphere of hatred here? Did you ever worry yourself, given that you were part of that? proposed arrest of Benjamin Netanyahu that in a way you've contributed to that climate of opinion.
The demonization of Israel did contribute, I think, to manifestations of anti Semitism all over the l world, including in the United Kingdom.
But do you worry at all that that arrest warrant contributed to that?
Uh no, I think that the arrest warrant was uh required by the application of something that I've always tried to apply in my life. Law and evidence.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the historical context of anti‑Jewish hatred discussed at the start of the episode?
0:00–4:59
2
How does Theodor Meron compare anti‑Semitism today with the 1930s?
4:59–8:55
3
What were the key moments of Meron’s escape from the Holocaust and his early life?
8:55–12:46
4
How did day‑dreaming help Meron survive the horrors of the labor camp?
12:46–17:10
5
Why did Meron decide to issue an arrest warrant against Prime Minister Netanyahu?
17:10–20:44
6
What evidence and legal standards did Meron consider when assessing war‑crime charges?
20:44–24:15
7
Does Meron remain optimistic about international justice and the rule of law?
24:15–27:16
8
What final reflections does Meron share about hope, day‑dreaming, and the future?
27:16–31:03
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1 identifiedMore from Political Thinking with Nick Robinson
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