Pop Apologists
Revisiting The Great American Romance of JFK Jr. & Carolyn Bessette
Wed, 25 Dec
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This week we are deep diving into the lives of Carolyn Bessette Kennedy and JFK, Jr. and their iconic American romance. Who exactly was Carolyn before she waltzed into JFK Jr.'s glittering orbit? What exactly made the American prince forego his supermodel habit in favor of a normal girl from White Plains, New York? How did Jackie O. feel about her son as he rose to prominence as the American sex symbol of his time? Why was Carolyn two hours late to her own wedding? And what happened on the fateful night when they met their untimely demise? We answer these questions and much, much more. Buckle in, bb's! Shop Clean Simple Eats protein powder a nd use code POPAPOLOGISTS for 10% off! To support the show, consider subscribing on Patreon or on Apple Podcasts, where you can get a bonus episode of Pop Apologists every Friday! Please note this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapter 1: Who are JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette?
Hello, loser. Oh, really? Really? That's how you want to get this started? Actually, I appreciate that. It's better than the well, well, well that I'm well, well, well, pretty sick of. Oh my gosh, Chandler. Today is an interesting day recording the pod because lots going on, but we are taking a little bit of a left turn from current events. I'm actually...
I'm happy to go back in time. Today feels like a very heavy day with like the Roe v. Wade stuff that we woke up to. The Met Gala looks a lot of them were a big fat letdown to me. So I'm happy to go back in time today, Lauren.
Yeah, I had this idea a few weeks ago. I thought let's I think maybe once a month. Let's do an episode that's just like basically telling the story, doing a deep dive into a couple or a person or an event, something that has a lot of public interest. So this is the first of a series of essentially pop apologists covering icons. And today we're covering an iconic couple.
So we are very, very excited because we are going to be chatting the romance, the lives, the human beings, the sordid tales, the drama, the gossip, everything that you want to know about JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette Kennedy.
mm-hmm correct and you know it's interesting because as i was reviewing all of the research for today i just really loved reading about it like yeah it's fascinating it's it's fascinating to like not only is their love story almost out of a fairy tale But I think the history with JFK Jr. and how he was the boy saluting his father's casket, the history is so rich.
And he was also really hot, which makes it very interesting to learn about. Frankly, that was actually one of my first go to instincts as I was researching all of this was. Yeah, I was really just kind of taken aback by how much our country used to be blessed with very attractive politicians like hot presidents, hot presidents. Why? Who else besides JFK Jr.? I mean, who else besides JFK?
JFK. I mean. People would argue that Obama was hot. Orson Welles. Oh, yeah. Obama's. Lincoln. I'm a huge fan of Lincoln. I don't know if Orson Welles was a prophet of the Mormon church or if he was an American president because I get all those white guy names mixed up all the time. I have no idea who Orson Welles is. But Lincoln is super hot. Maybe he's an author. Anyways.
I think that, yeah, there was a moment in time where politicians and- Hold on. What? What?
Can I offer a redaction? Orson Welles was an American director. I don't have my shit straight. Excuse me. I don't have my SHIT straight for this. I don't know where I came up with Orson Welles was an American president, but sorry about that, everybody, historians out there. Apologies. I'm not great at geography or American history, clearly. So, whew. Anyways.
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Chapter 2: What makes JFK Jr.'s upbringing significant?
OK, so she sends him to boarding school and and from there he only gets average average grades and he's diagnosed with ADD and put on Ritalin. This didn't help. He still flunked the 11th grade. But as one does, I'm sure the Kennedy named name helped. She did not need to Photoshop him onto a picture in the rowing team because he was able to still get into an Ivy League school.
But while at school, he was put on academic probation. So Jackie would write letters to his professors, you know, apologizing, saying that he was going to do well and she was going to personally see to it that he was going to do well. And interestingly enough, though, he really excelled at the theater and loved acting and drama. However, she did not approve of his love of acting.
And she told him that she would disinherit him if he didn't quit his silly dreams and get serious about his future. I mean, that is one tough cookie. It's kind of like, also, did everybody need to become politicians from that family? Like, didn't we have enough? Interesting.
Well, I think it's also interesting that him being a movie star wouldn't be enough. I mean, really. Can you imagine you have this son? He literally looks like a Greek god, you know, descended from heaven to bless us all with his beauty. And he also has loves acting.
And I guess, you know, being the next Cary Grant isn't good enough for Miss Jackie O. He's got to continue in the presidential lineage. I don't know for me. I want the gods above to know that if I send a child with a similar level of hotness and acting ability, I will nurture his God-given talent.
Well, and like, you know, I don't know. It's interesting that she wanted him to pursue an academic or a political career because I just feel like if I were her, I would have wanted to get away from that as much as possible. And I wouldn't want to be thrust back into that spotlight again.
Right. Yeah. No, I think that, I think that this is what's interesting. We've kind of talked about, you know, we look at people that are super successful, but they, they have like, they have, they live on a height that's really far to fall from and they want their children to also achieve the same level of success and notoriety that they have achieved most often.
Like most of the time, these super successful people, they don't want their kids to, to go live normal lives they want their kids to be stars too and so yeah they all they live under a lot of pressure yeah but okay moving on so john was crowned people's sexiest man alive in 1988 this issue of the magazine sold the most copies that it's ever sold today wow Which is pretty phenomenal.
And Jackie was not happy about this. She thought it would distract from his career path. But John was totally into being a sex symbol. And he even showed up to a big Hollywood Halloween party wearing nothing but a fig leaf. Wow. So he knew he was hot. Oh my gosh, yes. And he, yeah, he totally leaned into that. He eventually does go to law school, though, under the behest of his mother.
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Chapter 3: How did Carolyn Bessette rise to fame?
Absolutely not. So Carolyn, though, noticed that everyone was standing up a little late. That was kind of like this moment. And she was mortified that she didn't stand up quick enough, that she stood up late. Apparently, Ethel Kennedy. So this is another thing that I'm just very grateful about Kagan's family. They they're not interested in quizzing you on current events to see how learned you are.
But apparently the Kennedy family was. So Ethel Kennedy loved to discuss current events in politics. And she quizzed Carolyn about Carolyn's thoughts on the federal assault weapons ban. Carolyn, I guess, was too busy listening to the Pop Apologist podcast to care about this fan or to think how many, you know, formulated thoughts about it. So Ethel told her, you might want to read up on that.
It's quite important. And this was super embarrassing in front of everyone. Apparently, Ethel also says to Carolyn, a scarf in this weather. I'm feeling overheated just looking at you. Yes. It's like it's beyond bitchy.
That's the thing, too, is, like, you know the person who's trying to embarrass you and make you look like a fool. Yes, exactly. Like, if I get the vibe someone doesn't know what I'm talking about, I'm not going to lay into them and tell them they might want to read up on it, that it's super important. So anyway, quite, quite rude. And this really lays a foundation for their relationship.
Carolyn doesn't enjoy being around his family, and that is a huge source of strain for them in their marriage. Yeah. So apparently the dinner was not just the end of Carolyn's faux pas. The rest of the weekend was a disaster, too. She missed a few meals because John forgot to tell her that there was a sign-up sheet for breakfast and lunch.
Seems a little strange that you'd have to sign up for breakfast and lunch. It's a little campy for America's royal family, but okay.
Yeah. And she also had trouble keeping people's names straight. She put her foot in her mouth a lot and Ethel saw it all and was shaking her head during this weekend. Oh my gosh. OK, so so moving on from this terrible weekend, though, to John's George magazine. So around this time, he's dating Carolyn. Things are getting more serious, actually very serious.
And he pivots from the handmade kayaks from the mass produced handmade kayaks business.
and creates george magazine he receives 20 million to start the magazine from a mix of investors okay and the magazine's first office is on the 41st floor of a manhattan high rise it's not glamorous though there's coffee stains on the carpet and the walls are super grimy but he didn't care he was so excited to launch this venture and to launch this house this has arthur george vibes to me maybe it's just the name i don't know i
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Chapter 4: What are the details of JFK Jr. and Carolyn's romance?
I'm allowed to, you know, SHIT and other people's side hustles and not my own. Oh, right, right, right. For sure. You know how that works.
We are famous for being hypocritical, if anything. OK, so in July of 1995, after a year of dating. Wow, this is impressive. John and John proposed to Carolyn. It is impressive because it's so fast. It's so fast. I mean, that is just so hot. It's the same thing as Meghan and Harry. I love a fast engagement. To me, it speaks to passion. It speaks to romance. It speaks to depth.
I mean, it just speaks to men wanting to settle down, which we love to see.
which we love to see. It speaks to families being created. Okay. So in July of 1995, yes, after a year of dating, John proposes to Carolyn in a fishing rowboat while on a weekend at the Kennedy compound. Apparently he gets down on one knee. This is all very The Notebook to me. The Notebook slash a J. Crew fever dream. But he gets down on one knee and he says, fishing is better with a partner.
Everything is better with a partner. Will you marry me? Okay. I don't love this. I don't love this. I don't love this metaphor. I didn't love the cruise liner one. It's a little lazy. I don't love the fishing. It's super lazy. It's no Brad Falchuk tribute. It's not stirring at all. He doesn't even touch on her beauty, for the record.
No, he does not touch on how hot she is. And that is really, really terrible. Totally. It's a travesty. Now that I think of it, Kagan did not mention anything about my physical appearance during his proposal. And I'm going to tell him it must go in the vows. I mean, yeah, I just like I don't know if you should still marry him, but.
I would like 90% of the vows to be about different body parts and facial features that he is into. He better start writing now. Yeah, because it better be long. Oh, wait, he is. You find him in the middle of the night feverishly writing his vows. That's right.
I forgot. I do. That's right. Just completely stressed. Just dripping with sweat. Right. By candlelight with a fire lit. Right. Pen and quill. Okay. Okay. Apparently, Carolyn responds and says, I don't know. I'm afraid people will judge me, especially your family. And she's afraid she'll never be able to live a life marrying a Kennedy.
So three weeks go by, and finally, Carolyn agrees to marry him. This, I think, is super interesting because it really shows that she understood what the problem would be in their marriage and ultimately what it was, that she did not like being a Kennedy and did not like his family. Right. Right, right. And I'm sure saw the strife of Jackie and, you know, she just wasn't blind to any of it.
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Chapter 5: How did their families influence their relationship?
Interesting to note the iconic Mark Wahlberg Calvin Klein ads. You remember those? Yes. He is the crotch in those ads. Oh, OK. So he's packing some heat is what you're trying to say. Yeah. Wow. Dad's going to be thrilled. Hope nobody's listening. Thank you for that note. Thank you for that detail.
You know, she runs into him and, you know, it's reported that he makes her feel like her old self again. And they meet for coffee. Even at one point, you know, they're hanging out later into the night and they share a kiss. Which is like, if you're in a happy relationship, you're really not going to put yourself in those situations.
Absolutely. I'll just say. You're so correct. It's like the kiss really wasn't where the step out of turn happened. It was deciding to hang out with him after hours, likely. Right. You know, because you're not going to be in an environment where that's appropriate otherwise. Right.
And as this kiss happens, she pulls away and stops and says, what am I doing? She tells him it can never happen again. And she comes clean to JFK Jr. Okay. She comes clean to John. And what's crazy is that, you know, a day later... She comes clean to JFK Jr. She comes clean to his father. Not to him, but if you come clean to, like, your passed away father-in-law, it's fine. Yeah, exactly.
But John...
poses as the police like in buzzes at michael's door and michael lets him up and john immediately just decks him in the face when he sees him wow it's hot after finding out yeah it's pretty hot um so i guess you know this is when this review about how violence is never an answer But this doesn't end. This does not end their emotional affair, which is what she tells JFK Jr. that it really is.
She says, it's not sex. I can talk to him about my life, and he understands me, yada, yada, yada. But they continue to see each other. They continue to see each other. And this really makes JFK Jr. upset, obviously. If you share a kiss with anybody, and you're trying to restore your marriage, you should never see that person ever again.
especially solo i just think that it's actually inappropriate once you're in a partnership once you're in a marriage um to have friends that you hang out with of the opposite sex i just a one-on-one it's not appropriate it's just really not i mean do you agree or disagree i disagree i don't think that it's like
I don't know. I think that there are like, there are female friends from Ben's life before he knew me that like, yeah. Yeah. But I'm saying like new friends. I don't know. I guess I get what you're saying, but I also think that like, it's not appropriate to hang out with, especially repetitively with one member of the opposite sex.
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