Rahimi, Harris & Grote Show
Matt Norlander: Caleb Wilson would 'inject legitimate optimism' into Bulls
23 Jun 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the significance of the Bulls getting the fourth pick in the NBA Draft?
Let's not sit here and say because we have the fourth pick and all of a sudden this franchise is like, it's back. You know what I mean? But this is just a good opportunity to add high-level talent to our group and build this, like I keep saying, layer it appropriately. And so it's exciting, man. I can't believe it. I just got the job and I got the fourth pick. This is crazy, man. This is crazy.
This is Rahimi Harrison-Grody on 104.3 The Score, and that is Bryson Graham speaking after the draft lottery that netted the Bulls the fourth overall pick in tonight's NBA draft. And we go to our hotline. That is where we find our next guest.
He is the senior writer and college basketball analyst for CBS Sports, co-host of the Eye on College Basketball podcast, and he joins us on Twitch, twitch.tv slash thescorechicago. Matt Norlander, thanks for coming on.
It's my pleasure to be on. I mean, unfortunately, the way I'm cropped, I'm rocking my bear shirt, just so you know. Parents born and raised in Chicago, diehard Bears fan, so all too happy to be on with you.
Oh, yeah. Pop the jersey. Let's go. That's great. You guys can see that on Twitch if you're watching. We did get a... That's an orange bear shirt.
Matt, we got to start with this draft. Look, this man's putting out content by the minute. Yeah. Posted 13 minutes ago. Here's the headline. 2026 NBA Draft Intel. Latest buzz on Wizards' number one pick, trade chatter, and prospects rising late. Now, we care about that because... Here in Chicago, the Bulls have the fourth overall pick.
This is an article you can go check out on CBSSports.com right now. And Matt, I'm a staunch believer that Darren Peterson is going to have a better career than A.J. DeBonsa. And you're writing as if it's not a sure thing that DeBonsa will go number one to the Wizards.
Well, OK, 100 percent. I'm not there. But I do. I do think there's still the possibility that Washington could be fooling all of us. It was four years ago when up until all of what, two, three hours before the draft, even less than that. Everyone thought Jabari Smith Jr. was going to Orlando. And what happened? Paulo Bancaro went one. Jabari Smith Jr. fell to three to Houston.
Chet Holmgren went two to Oklahoma City. It's not unthinkable. Washington's done its diligence on this significantly, and they could certainly opt to do that. But the feeling around the league, I talked to nearly a dozen GMs and scouts over the past five days or so. I asked all of them, what do you think is going to happen at one? And I got nine returns on AJ and two on Darren Peterson.
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Chapter 2: Who is Caleb Wilson and why is he a top prospect for the Bulls?
Give me something very interesting to, uh, to riff about here. I'll be on CBS Sports HQ's draft coverage on TV and studio later tonight, and I'm going, I'm rooting for anything other than DeBonsa 1, Peterson 2, Boozer 3, Wilson 4, because that's the most likely scenario, and I'd like to see a curveball.
See, you brought me right to my next question. You wrote in this article that I read that Chicago... and Caleb Wilson, that seems to be the lock of those top four. Is that because you can't see any of the other three players falling past Memphis at three if they're available? I mean, how do you see this shaking out where Chicago doesn't end up with Caleb Wilson?
Is that a possibility in your mind?
Barely a possibility. The only way I could see it is if Memphis gets to three, and then they stun everyone and take Wilson at three ahead of Boozer because they think Wilson's ceiling is higher. But I just don't think we're going to get there. I think Caleb Wilson four to Chicago is the lock of locks in this draft. I think Bryson with his new...
his newfound job and being being gifted with this to be the fourth pick in a draft and just happen to get that fourth pick in a year in which there are six or seven players, at least in this draft, who reasonably could project to be Hall of Fame level talents. And you're sitting there with four Caleb Wilson. There's a scenario in which he's the best player in this draft.
It's not the most likely scenario. It's also not unthinkable. That's a great spot for Chicago to be in. And for essentially only the second time since Jordan left, you're going to have a draft pick that injects like legitimate optimism into the franchise. And they'll have, they've obviously got another pick coming in the first round, but Derrick Rose did it.
And this isn't the number one pick and it won't reach the Rose type of levels as when the year that he was drafted, you know, more than a decade and a half ago, but the Caleb Wilson injection is going to really bring a lot of, a lot of overdue stimulation from that fan base over what the Bulls could be. Cause Caleb Wilson is, is wired to be a ridiculous competitor.
He might be the best overall athlete in the draft as well, and if it all hits, then he can develop an all-around three-level scoring kind of game in addition to improving his defense and being an upper echelon defender in the NBA. Yeah, the Bulls are sitting pretty. They got none of the pressure.
You take Wilson at four, hope that he becomes a reliable all-star, and hopefully you build around him in the years to come.
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Chapter 3: How does Matt Norlander assess Darren Peterson's potential compared to A.J. DeBonsa?
And Matt, I think there has been some concern about, and it's, you know, these are the things where you're really just picking at stuff when it comes to, is this person the most ultimate long-term investment? His shot profile, does the lack of a three, at least in the college game, concern you at all?
No, because I actually think that he is going to develop a reliable perimeter shot. He's never going to be a guy who's shooting 40% from three-point range, and they won't ask him to. And yes, you're going to get to points where you're nitpicking. I was talking to one executive Sunday night, I think it was, just kind of riffing on stuff. And as I started the call, I was saying, how are you doing?
I'm like, like everyone else, I hate everyone at this point, because you just nitpick these players to death. So many of these front office executives, they just want to get to the draft and make the picks and get this over with. Because when you get to these final week or so, you're picking apart everything. Don't do that with Wilson. I understand he's not the perfect prospect.
If he was the near perfect prospect, he would be projected to go number one. He just happens to be in the same draft class with so many other excellent prospects. But you're going to ask him to... to be a super energy guy, great rebounder, good distributor, good passer, pick up the trash, can hit from the mid-range, got a good handle, can work in the post.
And yes, I think that shot from 18, 20, 22 feet, I think that will come along. Give him a little bit of time. He's obviously not going to step in right away and ask, nor will he be some kind of guy that's going to drop like 21 and 10 right away. But I do think he's got a healthy shot at being nearly as impactful as any other rookie in the league next year.
Matt, we have talked about the top shelf stuff, if you will, with these top four players, but there's plenty of stuff before you get to the well licker in this analogy. I look at what happens after four, and that's where the draft kind of goes wide open with the Clippers at number five.
Do you think it makes sense for the Clippers to trade that pick to get help for Kawhi Leonard right now, or should they be building for the future? I'm trying to figure out if the Bulls can get back involved in the top ten.
Well, the Clippers have been rumored to have been just open to moving that pick. I don't think that's going to happen. The case for why that could happen is there's going to be this parade of point guards and combo guards that go between 5 and 10, 11 or 12. And that's going to be Keaton Wagler, Michael Brown Jr., Darius Acuff.
Kingston Flemings and Braden Burries, those five, they could go one, two, three, four, five in a row, but they probably won't go over beyond a seven pick stretch. And if the Clippers find the evaluations on those players are fairly equal, where if they don't get the guy that's at the number at the top of their board at five, they're
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Chapter 4: What are the potential outcomes for the Wizards' number one pick?
No one knows who's going at five. You know, the Wagler is the most commonly mocked out of Illinois. Of course, pick to five. I can very much see that. I wouldn't be surprised if it's Michael Brown Jr. at all. Can't see a cuff going there because pairing up with Garland doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
But some wonder if they actually try and trade down and say, we've got a backcourt figured out. Do we try and get one of these bigs that are going to be there, you know, around nine, 10, 11, 12. As always, we wait and see.
I think the good news, though, Matt, on Wagler is that he didn't lose any stock and capital that he had built up over his success in the tournament. To me, that was a sign that there's a lot of teams that really respect what his future is going to be. We've seen flashes in the pan before where maybe they didn't have as good of a combine or something happened between the tournament and now.
That doesn't seem to be the case with him.
It's not, and I'm not surprised because he interviews really well, very attentive, very good teammate, very humble. Some of your listeners are aware of this, but if you're not, I mean, he was not remotely seen as a high major type of product. Brad Underwood took him almost on a lark, never even saw him in person. was ranked 150th at 247 Sports in his high school class.
There's essentially no parallel to this story. There's never been a player that I could find that was ranked as low as Wagler was, and then immediately, one year later, will be a top 10 pick. I think he is a one-of-one kind of story, and throughout this process over the past two-plus months since Illinois' season ended, he's really done well for himself. I feel like his...
His absolute floor is seven, and I don't think we get there. I think six to Brooklyn is the worst-case scenario for him. I just don't think he lasts to Sacramento at seven, and very possible that he goes to the Clippers or any team that would try to trade there into five.
What do you think about Darius Acuff and his potential, whether that's floor, ceiling, or both?
Tell you what, the Acuff situation, I have been in on Acuff since before he played at Arkansas, and then he was just marvelous to watch last season. Made more tough shots in big moments than any player in the country. Jalen Brunson coming off winning the NCAA tournament he did in 2018 and winning the NBA championship only helps Acuff's case here. They're not identical players by any means.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of the draft being so complex this year?
Oh, man. Let's dive in. I'm going to refresh on my notes here and show you what I got. The Bulls have a variety of things that they can do. I wonder if they go... Okay, so they take Wilson at four. Let's bring someone into the backcourt with this, right? I do think... Christian Anderson out of Texas Tech would be a very good scenario for them, and I think that he could be on the board there.
They have worked him out. I've gotten feedback that they really, really like what they saw there with him. I don't think Christian Anderson falls below 16, but keep that in mind. Christian Anderson averaged 7.5 assists last season, 18.5 points, was one of the... I don't know, three best shooters to come into this draft. So that's a name to keep an eye out for there.
If Yaxel Lindenborg out of Michigan is still there, which I don't think he has any business falling to 15, but I do think it is a potential scenario. Give it, I don't know, 25% chance that that happens. If Yaxel is there, you take Yaxel and don't look back. Don't ask questions. I don't care that he's going to be 24 at the start of next season.
He is one of the, in my opinion, going into the NBA next season. He is one of the... five best basketball players in this draft pool, but because he is older, he is not going to be taken to the top five and probably won't get taken in the top 10. If the ax is there, do not hesitate and, and, and absolutely chase and take him.
Um, other players that could be there for the bulls, Cameron Carr out of Baylor. Maybe I think that might be a little bit of a reach. Uh, Bennett Sturtz has gotten a lot of run as of late. Um, His camp actually think there's a decent chance he'll go top 15. Obviously, your listeners might have some familiarity with him, being in Big Ten country and seeing what he did at Iowa.
So keep an eye on him there as well. LeBaron Phylon out of Alabama is someone that I think will probably be available in that spot as well. So one of the names I've given you, I think, is who the Bulls will actually ultimately wind up selecting. But if you're listening, watching, you're a Bulls fan... root for Yaxchel to fall there and take him and don't look back.
But if that's not the case, Christian Anderson should be the move. I mean, he's just super mature, very coachable. He'll look at his listing and you think he's a little bit on the undersized. And, you know, listed around 6'1", 180 pounds. At the Combine, they actually showed when his medical, his growth plates haven't closed.
So they actually think he's got a chance to maybe put a little bit more on his overall frame in the next year of his life. So Christian Anderson would be a wonderful pairing to go with Caleb Wilson because they're also both of them are ultra competitors.
It's great to have two of the top 15 picks in this draft because the depth really is there. And you hear it if you've been researching this or just following along since the end of college basketball season. It's evident throughout, whether you're looking at the guards, whether you're looking at big men, all-around players, shooters. You can find anything in the top.
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Chapter 6: What makes Caleb Wilson a lock for the Bulls at the fourth pick?
And it's just because of how young they are. Just to go back real quick on this, right now I think Yaxel Lindenborg is a better basketball player than Caleb Wilson. But I do not think that he will be that in the NBA by the end of next season. So Wilson's ceiling is very, very high. But to me, it's DeBonsa. DeBonsa's got the range. He's got the scoring ability. He's still got a really...
sharpen a lot of stuff that has to do with his game. Like he wasn't as good from three as he wanted to be. The release was a little bit flat. He worked on it consistently all season. He's still got to get better with that. He had to take on a lot of responsibilities defensively. I actually think he'll be a better defender at the NBA level because he won't be tasked with as much at BYU.
But to me, yeah, everything, everything that would come with a franchise changing player. I think the Bonta has, I think he has the highest ceiling.
And then quickly, Matt, I just want to get your thoughts because this happened yesterday. The dusty May news going to Dallas. Given that Michigan has a lot of Chicago adjacency, should Bulls fans be surprised that he wasn't part of the discussion before the team hired Tiago Splitter?
Um, no, I don't know if they should necessarily be surprised because every franchise goes through different methods to what pool of candidates they're going to interview. And I know there was some roaming curiosity with John Shire, of course, at Duke. Both Shire and May were involved at Dallas. So, no, not necessarily. I know the Splitter hire by some has actually been pretty raved about.
We'll see. He was able to find a landing spot after Portland. That's great for Splitter, and hopefully he's the guy there that can really make a difference and get the Bulls back into consistent relevancy at the NBA level. But Dusty, we'll see on this. I mean, he, I think, somewhat unexpectedly found himself in a position where Dallas was ready to offer him this job.
I wrote about this yesterday for CBSSports.com, but he had an eye on the NBA. And I think next year would have been definitely likely that he could have gone, if not that, like 28 at the latest. And then this whole thing with Dallas just accelerated on a level that I think a week ago, Dusty Mays still wasn't even sure that he was going to have a real shot at getting the Dallas Mavericks job.
But get a shot he did, and now he goes, and he'll be there. tonight with his three likely lottery picks, though, by the way. But Bulls fans, I understand there's a little bit of curiosity. Why didn't we get him? He's local, Big Ten area and all that kind of stuff. But the way these NBA searches when it comes to filling head coaching vacancies fill out doesn't exactly work like that.
And be happy with what you got. Get ready for the fourth pick. Caleb Wilson will be on the ground in Chi town on Wednesday, and we'll see who winds up joining him with the 15th spot.
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