Chapter 1: What is the main theme of Róisín Ingle's writing?
This is a What Next podcast. Hello and welcome to Being Human. It's the truly universal experience is being human. It's what we all have in common. And yet the human experience is different for all of us. We all have individual ways of thinking, behaving, of coping, of existing in this world. For this series, we're trying to understand what it is to be human with the help of our guests.
In this episode, we talk to writer and journalist Roisin Ingle. Roisin's writing has been a part of a lot of people's week for a lot of years. Her weekly columns are engaging, thought-provoking, personal, sometimes poignant and often very funny. She has written about the human condition as she sees it. and in doing so, helped many people.
In this conversation, you'll hear her speak about her cancer diagnosis, her dad's suicide, and a lot more. Roisin is particularly strong on equanimity, the ability to remain calm and non-reactive when good or bad things happen to us. Easier said than done. Roisin invited us into her house and made us a nice cup of coffee before we sat down at the kitchen table.
There's a lot of hard-earned wisdom in this chat. Rui.
Let's go.
Being human at Roche in England.
Is that what it's called, being human?
Being human, yeah. Oh, OK. Yeah, we've sort of discussed at length what it should be called. And the reason it's called being human is it comes from a book I read a few years ago. And it was by a man whose name I always mispronounce, Alain de Botton. You know, he's a philosopher, blah, blah, blah. And he was talking about all the things that go on in our heads that we don't share with anybody.
And that if we did, that maybe people would think that they're less unusual than they think they are, less odd, less. Because actually the human condition is a little bit all messed up in our heads. And sometimes we encounter things that we think are unique to us when in fact they're not. They're just part of the human condition. Yeah. So that's sort of it. Great. Great.
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Chapter 2: How has Róisín's cancer diagnosis impacted her perspective on life?
I mean, when because my dad died when I was eight, but some of them were older than that. So I had a different experience of that all happening. And also when they would have been very young, maybe things might have been more difficult in the family, more economically difficult and stuff. So they had to deal with that.
I mean, I had a really lovely childhood, despite the fact that my father died and because I have an amazing mother, you know, but I definitely my father dying at that young age, I think, affected me a lot. But he was also very ill. He was mentally ill. So that was difficult because he wasn't there a lot.
Chapter 3: What does equanimity mean in the context of Róisín's experiences?
And I knew that he was in the hospital. And but I didn't actually know he was mentally ill. I didn't know he had schizophrenia. I didn't know any of that. But I think, you know, you're different, you know, something's happening in your family that's not like anything else.
Yeah. And we're going to obviously talk about your dad and his suicide before we get to that, because that happened when you were eight. Yeah. What was your first childhood memory?
Hmm.
I have a memory of going to school, primary school. I'm not one of these people who has memories. My husband has memories from being in the cot. It's really weird.
He doesn't really though.
But he thinks he does.
He really believes it. And I think he's kind of maybe does. I really feel the way he talks about it. He does. But anyway, I was three. I started primary school when I was three. And I remember the first day of school. That's probably the earliest thing I remember. I had a boil or some kind of spot on my bum and it was really painful to sit down. And Miss Price, who was my teacher,
She was so nice to me. I just remember like feeling so embarrassed and so weird. And she was just, I think she got me a cushion and she didn't make me feel bad. And I just remember that. That's a big memory, just feeling like safe and protected by this person. And she actually went on to be the principal of that school eventually, but she was just an amazing woman, Miss Price.
So when do you think your childhood ended?
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Chapter 4: How did Róisín cope with her father's suicide as a child?
And having said all that, you still don't want your dad not to be in the picture. But... Yeah, it's funny because we'd be similar, me and my mother, like that. She could see, I think, very quickly how life could continue, that life wasn't going to be this terrible thing. It was going to be a terrible life now because this had happened to her.
Her husband had killed himself, the father of her children. So, you know, she was going to be able to still have a joyful, wonderful, full life. And she could see that. And I suppose, yeah. If she could see it, then I could see it. I can't speak for my siblings, but I could see it. And so her worldview and her idea of how things could continue was something I could take up as well.
But I think there's other things that happen inside you that
you know, are not. Yeah, so we're sort of a product of, I suppose, the genes of both our parents and then our environment. So you said already there that your mum has given you this positive outlook on life. Your dad was schizophrenic.
He was, he would drink, but I don't know if he, I think that goes hand in hand a lot with, you know, they say dual diagnosis of mental illness and alcoholism. And I don't know if he was an alcoholic, but he certainly was.
drank and um he was a kind of a he wouldn't have been the most reliable of characters in terms of being um there and you know yeah sorry the question is what did you get from your dad oh yeah well i mean he's a beautiful voice and i like to think i have a nice singing voice but my children would disagree because they have really good singing voices um
I think personality, like he was, from what I hear, and again, it's sort of stuff I've heard, that he could walk into a room and make friends with people. And like he used to drive a taxi sometimes. Sometimes he'd like have people in the back who were going to a party and he'd end up ditching the taxi and going to the party. And that sort of sounds quite spontaneous and like me.
I think personality wise, we might have been quite similar in that kind of gregariousness and kind of the, you know, taking life by the scruff of its neck and just being into people and into the crack and wanting to Yeah. And I think spontaneity, actually, now that I'm talking to you, I'm thinking I'm quite a spontaneous person.
And he was, you know, the way other people like to know everything that's going on. I'm quite happy. Ray is pointing to himself. I'm quite happy to not know and for things to happen unexpectedly. And I think he was probably a bit like that. You know, and a lucky kind of person. That sounds like a strange thing to say when he got mental illness, but he found luck.
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Chapter 5: What lessons did Róisín learn from her childhood experiences?
I mean, I think I talked to myself in my head a lot. I think a lot of people do and they don't say it.
They do, yeah.
Actually, it's funny because this morning I was hearing somebody talking and I was thinking, who's she talking to? One of my daughters. And I was saying, who's she talking to this hour of the morning? And I said, who are you talking to? She said, I was talking to myself. And I said, oh God, I hope that yourself had good things to say. She said, yeah, yeah.
I think she was just talking through her day. And I loved that she was just talking to herself out loud. It was kind of funny. But yeah, no, I would have. And it would be a lot of self-critical voice, a critical voice a lot. And I mean, I suppose it would have been about not being good enough, you know, that kind of thing. And, you know, it's funny because I didn't get those messages at home.
I didn't get it from my mother. Like my mother is a very person who big you up and make you feel great. So it's not like I got that. I don't know where that would have come from. I don't know, because I think these things can be, again, nature versus nurture, whatever. I think it can just be part of your personality or something.
Because I was observing and looking around, maybe I was looking around and thinking, I don't really live up to that or I don't live up to this. But another part of me, I mean, I don't want to be too much down that road because it's true. I did have critical voices. Another part of me thought I was great. I knew I was great as well in some ways.
So you're a contradiction.
Well, yeah, aren't we all though? I think like I knew that I was good at talking to people. I knew that people liked me, that they liked my vibe, my personality. And I knew I had that. Maybe I'm talking about more physical stuff. I'm talking about not fitting into a girl or, you know, a woman, young woman should look like and how you could be attractive to people in a physical way.
Like, I think I knew that I had... I ticked all loads of other boxes, but I didn't think I ticked those boxes. And that became a kind of thing where, you know, that.
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Chapter 6: How does Róisín define connection and its importance?
It really, really annoys me. Yeah. I'm hoping there was just a horrible blip that we're going through and that it's going to right itself again. You know, that's my glass half full vibe.
Okay, before we finish our chat about Roisin Ingle being a human being, being a human being, how is the internal monologue going now?
You know, it's so much better. I'm really kind to myself now. I actually feel very proud of myself. And I don't use that very lightly because I'm not, you know, my children gave out to me for a good while. I've started doing it again. They didn't like that I never said I was proud of them.
I didn't like that word because I, and this, I was trying to explain to them, no matter how much I explained it, they didn't get it. I was trying to say, if I say I'm proud of you, I'm taking some kind of credit for your achievements. It's like when you do something and It's not because of me.
Like, so that's the way I misinterpreted maybe pride, you know, as if it was like, oh, I'm so proud of you. That means that I'm a better person because you've done this great thing. I wanted to stand. I want them to be, I want them to be proud of themselves, you know. But then once they explained that they didn't like me not being proud of them, I started to. to say it.
So now I'm really proud of my children, but it feels, it still jars a bit. And it jars a little bit for me to say that I'm proud of myself, but I am because I see all the really best parts of my personality and my character coming up to meet this really hard challenge, you know?
And it's so, having spent a long time in my life being mean about myself and telling myself I'm useless and I'm shit and I'm fat and I'm ugly and no one's ever going to love me and all those things. Like, I just go now, God, no, you were totally wrong. And you're actually amazing. And not that, not only I'm amazing, Johnny's amazing, the girls are amazing. You know, everybody is, right?
Everybody has this capacity to find something in themselves that's going to help them when they really need the help. And I'm so pleased about it. Maybe pleased is better than proud. Or maybe I can be proud of myself. It's fine.
I mean, people say... I don't like it when people say to me, you know, you're very brave and you're... I don't like it, but that's just because... I don't know why I don't like that. Because I don't feel brave. That's the thing.
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