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Chapter 1: What incident involving Zak Butters and Nick Foot is being discussed?
Breakfast with Gary and Tim. Moving on. 50 metres. Yeah, I'd love to know the language that I said, because I went up to him after the game and obviously just wanted to have a chat like any two humans do. And he said he didn't want to speak to me. And yeah, all I said is, how's that a free kick? And yeah, he gave 50 and said, I'm on report.
So yeah, I'm curious to follow that one up because I'm never going to say anything bad to the umpire.
Chapter 2: What were the reactions of Zak Butters after the game?
So yeah, I just wanted to follow up and ask what he thought I said from his end.
Look, I'm really disappointed if I'm being honest. How has this got to this? And some of the things that come up in footy are really frustrating. This is one of those moments where this could have been handled mature. The way to have this conversation would have been perhaps straight after game when Zach approached the umpire, which he's a captain, so he's allowed to approach the umpire.
To question and know what Zach is and then say he's accusing you
of cheating I just can't have it from my perspective having sat in that chair for 20 years there's nothing worse outside of vilification that you could say to a match day official and umpires are not allowed to go back I would get in so much trouble even just for standing my ground and saying don't talk to me like that and I'm not suggesting Zach did say this again it has to be proven yet right but more broadly calling an umpire a cheat or making that inference is as poor a thing as you can say to an umpire
Right. Hopefully you got a little perspective there. So the first, you heard the incident with the umpire Nick Foote calling 50 metres and then told Zach that he'd reporting him. You then heard Zach post-game just wondering why he'd been reported. You heard Kenny Hinkley, who's coached obviously Zach for a long, long time. And that last voice was Ray Chamberlain.
To put in some context as to why the umpire felt as aggrieved as he did, because if what was said, what was alleged to have said had been said, then that's the worst thing, according to Ray, that an umpire can have said to him. Righto, let's try and unpack this. And this is one of the more difficult ones to unpack.
I don't think we're going to reach a conclusion this morning. We can say whatever we want and we can have our own views about this and you've got a strong view about it, I've got a strong view about it. And I cannot understand for the life of me why this cannot be sorted out in the room after the game. When you get two people in there, you have a conversation, you have a mediator, somebody there.
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Chapter 3: How do Garry and Tim interpret the umpire's actions?
They can hear both sides of the story. They can agree to disagree if that's what they arrive at as humans talking about what they thought they said and what somebody else thought they heard. Because what's going to happen at the tribunal is you're going to have his teammate, you're going to have Wines coming in and saying, well, this is what I heard Zach say.
And I don't know that there's going to be another umpire within the vicinity or anyone else that can be called as Nick Foote's version of the truth. So where are we going to end up? We're going to have somebody having to choose which of those two stories that they want to believe.
Yeah. I think that that option was put to both player and umpire to see if they could sort it out in the manner that you would have and I would have liked, probably most people, but... I want to say this. You know I'm Zach Butters. I'm Zach Butters. So I'm trying to be balanced in this. And Ken is unashamedly Zach Butters.
And Ken says, amongst other things, there seems to be well and truly a lot about nothing. Well... No one barracks for the umpires in this, so let's be really clear. So as strongly as Kenny defended Zach, which is admirable because he knows him and all that, there'll be someone out there that'll defend the umpire just as strongly, Ken.
And I know you're saying it's blowing up and Ken's saying, well, this is well and truly a lot about nothing, but... If you hear from the umpire's point of view, which we will tonight, in his mind, it's not all about nothing.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of calling an umpire a cheat?
He's saying, and I'm just trying to be devil's advocate, he's saying that his whole integrity has been questioned. That's what he heard anyway. Now, Ken says, I believe Zach, and... I don't know the umpire. So I think, Zach, I look at that and go, no, I think Zach's telling the truth. Therefore, maybe the umpire misheard. That's where I sit on it all. But how would I know?
Tim, how would you know? And that's, as you say, that's the hardest thing about it all.
But they're going to get to the tribunal. They're not going to know either. Like, it's going to be two versions of truth, of their truth, what they thought they heard, what one person said they said. And then you've got Ollie Wines. He'll back up. There's no doubt. He'll back up what Zach Butters said. So you've got two against one. So who do you believe?
Well, Lance Collard is a young man from St Kilda who is going to be ā he'll find out today how much footy he's going to miss because the same thing happened in a game that he played against Frankston. He says he said one thing. The two Frankston footballers swear that they heard him say something. So that's he said, he said. They go to the tribunal. The tribunal has to make a decision.
So the tribunal makes a decision and says, no, we find you guilty, Lance. And you'll find out today how much footy he's going to miss.
Or they just say, well, there's insufficient evidence here.
Well, they didn't. No, he's been found guilty.
In this case, though, I'm going to say, they go to the tribunal tonight and they say, well, there's insufficient evidence. I mean, we've got two versions of the same thing and they differ dramatically. Therefore, we have to have a finding of insufficient evidence. And it's just...
You know, like if you do the pub test on this, there wouldn't be a ā I don't think there wouldn't ā there would not be a sensible-minded person out there who wouldn't think that you could sit down and talk about this post-game and then not for it to be what we are now talking about it becoming. And it is a circus around this, and it will be.
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Chapter 5: How can communication issues be resolved in sports?
And you're right. I don't know how they're going to find a... How are they going to find a decision? Because you've got the Kenny Hinkleys of the world that are just... You call Kenny as a character witness and he's just going to say, well, no, there's not a chance in hell. And then you call someone similarly attached to Nick Foote who turns around and says, well, guess what, Ken?
My man wouldn't lie either.
Is it suspicious in any way that there was no audio caught of this?
Yeah. Well, suspicious... Yeah, I can't work out why. I mean, the umpire's mics are there. We heard him say you've been reported pretty loud and clear. So I don't know the answer to that. I don't know how that works. Do I think that the AFL have cut the audio? No, I don't. But I can see how the conspiracy theorists might get to that stage.
I know what you're saying about how somebody receives a message, but I can't for the life of me believe that this is anything but oversensitivity. Even if that was said, I would think that that's oversensitive for anybody that's in a position of umpire to hear that and then believe that they want to go and send a play to the tribunal for having said that in the heat of the moment.
And that's fair.
That's not racism. Because I think it's the same, Tim. It's not a homophobic slur. No, no, no. But, but, but.
this is what we have learned i tried to explain this last night over time it's not what you think no it's not what i think about the umpire being precious it's what he thinks and if he thinks he's integrity and i'm not saying this happened by the way yeah but if no i know you can shake your head but he if he turns around i am shaking my head i am it's a it's a basic if you you're offended yeah but that doesn't mean you're right like it's not for you those same lines it's not for you
No one else heard it outside those two people. If you're defamed, if I defame you right now on radio, it would be that I'm defaming you in front of thousands of people. But on the football field, it's just a conversation between two people. No, but didn't you hear Ray Chamberlain then? Yeah, no, I heard Ray, but I don't believe that.
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Chapter 6: What is the role of witnesses in the tribunal process?
You're not an umpire.
Yes, it is. I'm allowed to have an opinion. No, I know. Of course you are. Which is what we're doing now. We're both having an opinion.
This is what I'm trying to... Well, this is what I've learned anyway over time. It doesn't matter what we think. It doesn't matter what I think. If I say something to you and you get offended by it and I go, well, hang on, don't be so... Sensitive. Yeah, precious. This is what I've been taught and educated over... And this was along the racism lines. So if an umpire thinks that his whole...
reason for being an umpire is being called into question and that you were saying that am i being paid to give free kicks to another team then that's the way he feels You and I might think that that was a throwaway line. Yeah, and I do. It's bounced around all the time, but it's probably not relevant.
No, I completely understand what you're saying, but I don't believe that we should be at this point over a comment, even if that was the comment. And that's disputed now anyway.
It is, man. That's why this is so hard to try and work out where it's... Let's just say we all agree that that is what he said, and please, not for one second am I saying this is the case. This is a hypothetical. Well, then we have the discussion, and this is where I think you can sort it out. You get in the room and you say, Nick, do you really think that Zach meant what he said?
And then he says, well, he said it, and it hurt me, and this and that, and da-da-da, and Zach can say, yeah, I can understand and work out, well, all right, Zach.
there's a three grand fine and let's get on with it but i don't think that's going to happen how do you think crowds football crowds are going to react to the next time they see nick foot out there umpiring a game what do you think what reaction do you think is going to be what reaction do you think nick foot's going to receive the next time football crowds see him out there officiating at a game
Yeah, I understand that. And this person said, Gary, you're offending me now. I'm not good enough or do better. It doesn't matter what you... Well, I'm just saying, I'm more of Tim's opinion on this than Nick's, but I'm trying to explain the other side of the coin here because ain't anyone going to be barracking for the umpire through all this. So, you know, abuse me all you want.
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