Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What sensitive topic is addressed at the start of the episode?
Before we get into this episode, just a heads up that we are going to be discussing eating disorders today. For support, call the Butterfly National Helpline on 1-800-ED-HOPE, 1-800-334-673, or visit www.butterfly.org.au to chat online or email 7 days a week, 8am to midnight AEST.
lucid dreaming update yes have you no oh finding it incredibly difficult to do the training yeah if people haven't listened to this Friday episode where we spoke about lucid dreaming to catch you up very very quickly Zara's little brother trained himself in COVID to lucid dream this was a revelation to Zara about a month ago she didn't know this happened but I tasked myself to
with the training that Zara's pregnant, I would take it upon myself to try and lucid dream. Thank you. And the training is I need to look at clocks all the time.
No, I'm not doing my due diligence of telling you to look at clocks.
Apart from when it's 11.11, you never tell me the time.
LAUGHTER
So you don't tell me the time. I feel like I'm actually trying to do a lot solo for this podcast. Okay, my issue was is at the time I said, well, how good I've got a child that often wakes me up at five or six. She's just sleeping through the night. She's sleeping too well. She's sleeping through the night. On the rare occasion she does wake me up,
Because it's not like I wake up and I go, one second. Sorry, Sadie. What was my dream? Let me write down three words. I know you're crying and need some milk, but mama has to get to a lucid dreaming journal. So when she's waking up, my immediate thought is not, what dream was I just having? It's, oh, my child's in distress. terrible for lucid dream training.
I have not written down a single dream. The other thing that's happening is I'm putting so much pressure on myself to remember my dream. I wake up, I've clocked, I've just had a dream, but I'm trying so hard to remember it. It vanishes. It slips out of your hands. It's like I have performance anxiety. Okay. That's okay.
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Chapter 2: What recent media piece sparked the discussion about Ariana Grande?
I did not appreciate the broader impacts of that as a 17, 18, whatever year old girl. I look back now and I realize what happened for so long on social media and probably why I've always felt very passionate about speaking and analyzing social media is because pro-anorexia content can go completely unchecked and unchallenged.
And I know personally how that impacted me for years of my life and the damage I did to my body at that point in time. So I think I look at this and I don't just feel sad for young women now. I feel sad for myself.
No, totally. And I think I guess for me it's like when we've been talking about this a lot this week… I find the distinction mentally and emotionally hard to get around which is just by simply existing is that pro-anorexia content or is it we talking about the stuff that's, you know, actively telling women that they should live a certain way.
And I think when the Butterfly Foundation came out and said, well, it's kind of one and the same at this point, it's a really hard thing to get my head around. It truly is. Like the idea that just by existing... People are acting on that.
And I think this is, and I'd love both of your opinions on this. I think this is a big conversation playing out at the moment to be like, well, Ariana's just in her body. That's it. She's just in her body. Is that her portraying anything? I guess my challenge to that is if she was just walking down the street and there was a paparazzi photo, I agree. She's up on a stage.
This has happened because she's in concert where she's up on a stage with a bunch of spotlights on her. And the whole design of a concert is everyone look at this amazing person. Everyone look at this amazing thing, this amazing act. And unfortunately, by design of her being on a literal stage under a literal spotlight, that is platforming certain ideals.
Yeah, well, not just metaphorically in every literal sense.
And then the other part of me, I can't lie that when I hear stories about this or when we have conversations like this, I cannot ignore the fact that there have been instances in the past where culture has commented on someone's body and we've missed the mark. You know, when it hasn't been eating disorder stuff, it's been something else entirely and it's brought a lot of pain and into families.
For example, after the break, I want to talk about Chadwick Boseman because I think that's an interesting parallel here and kind of something to compare this story to.
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Chapter 3: When did public concern about Ariana Grande's weight begin?
Chadwick Boseman was yes, posting on socials, but he wasn't dabbling in public life. I think there is a demarcation between a celebrity who is just existing in the world and a celebrity who is dabbling and leaning into the fame element of the job, the platform element of the job.
I think there is something to it. I think there is something to be said about the fact she's on tour. I don't want to overstate it, though. I think cancelling a tour like this is not just as simple as cancelling a tour. There are so many people involved in a decision like that.
A lot of jobs, a lot of money, a lot of stuff she can't control, even if her health is not where it needs to be or she wants it to be. And so I just find it like... And again, I'll probably be like quite frustrating through this episode because I think my mind feels muddy and so therefore my points will. But I can't find myself passionately binary about any point here.
I don't think I'd ask for her tour to be cancelled. I think I'm asked what I then think is the natural solution is we need to have uncomfortable conversations. Simply because a conversation is uncomfortable to me is not a valid reason to not have it. Does that make sense? No, I completely agree with you. Like we... We simply have to talk about this.
And the other part of me is like, okay, in the case of Karen Carpenter, right, I think earlier in the week I would have argued I'm not sure talking about Karen Carpenter would have saved her.
And I think where that argument, my own argument, fell down when I was kind of reading through a lot of the Butterfly Foundation stuff is it's like, well, maybe it's not necessarily about what you can do for the Karen Carpenters and the Ariana Grandes of the world. It's about what you can do for everybody else.
Yeah. Another interesting example of this is Amy Winehouse. Gil, I loved your notes on this part of the story. To be clear, Amy died when she was 27 years old due to alcohol poisoning, but it's believed that her eating disorder was a contributing factor to her premature death. Her weight was a contributing factor.
We should also note that her older brother Alex has said in the past that he believed when he looks back at her death, he actually credits it to her eating disorder more so than alcohol abuse. He has said that her bulimia and the cultural silence around eating disorders allowed her condition to go unchecked. There's a really interesting interview he did in 2013 with The Observer.
He said that her eating disorder, and I quote, left her weaker and more susceptible. He said, had she not had an eating disorder, she would have been physically stronger.
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