Welcome to episode #1053 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). Eric Ries is one of the most influential entrepreneurs and management thinkers of the past two decades. Best known as the creator of the Lean Startup movement, his ideas fundamentally changed how founders, innovators, and established organizations build products, test ideas, and bring innovation to market. His work has shaped startups, Fortune 500 companies, governments, and nonprofits around the world, earning him recognition as one of the defining voices on modern entrepreneurship. In his latest book, Incorruptible - Why Good Companies Go Bad... And How Great Companies Stay Great, Eric turns his attention to a much deeper question: why do organizations that begin with strong values and bold missions so often lose their way? Drawing on years of advising founders and studying corporate history, he argues that corruption is rarely about bad people... it's about systems, incentives, governance, and what he calls "financial gravity," the invisible forces that slowly pull organizations away from the very principles that made them successful in the first place. In this conversation, Eric explores why mission-driven companies outperform over the long term, how corporate governance can preserve or destroy an organization's purpose, and why stewardship may be one of business's most undervalued leadership traits. We also discuss the unintended consequences of shareholder primacy, what today's AI revolution can learn from previous waves of technological disruption, and why the future belongs to organizations that are intentionally designed to remain true to their values even as they scale. It's a thoughtful conversation about leadership, innovation, governance, and what it really takes to build companies that endure. Enjoy the conversation... Running time: 53:30. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with Eric Ries. Incorruptible - Why Good Companies Go Bad... And How Great Companies Stay Great. Lean Startup. Follow Eric on X. Follow Eric on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction to Eric Ries and His New Book. (03:02) - The Journey of Lean Startup and Its Impact. (06:04) - The Dark Side of Success in Startups. (08:50) - Understanding Corruption in Business Practices. (12:11) - The Paradox of Enlightened Capitalism. (15:09) - Financial Gravity and Its Effects on Companies. (18:00) - Corporate Governance: The Need for Change. (21:13) - The Role of Structure in Business Success. (24:08) - Navigating the Stormy Seas of Business. (26:56) - Civic Renewal and the Future of Business. (28:51) - The Weight of Words: Redefining Corruption. (32:09) - Generational Perspectives on Business Values. (36:24) - Speed vs. Quality: The Business Dilemma. (42:20) - AI: A Double-Edged Sword for Society. (49:44) - A Renaissance of Mission-Driven Companies.

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