Welcome to episode #1031 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when businesses are still trying to wrap their heads around "customer experience," few thinkers have shaped that conversation… and pushed it forward… as much as B. Joseph Pine II. As cofounder of Strategic Horizons, Joe has spent decades helping organizations understand how economic value evolves… from commodities to goods, to services, to experiences… and now, to something far more ambitious. Best known for The Experience Economy: Work Is Theatre And Every Business A Stage, Joe didn't just introduce a concept… he gave leaders a new language to describe how businesses compete for time, attention and meaning. In this conversation, Joe extends that thinking through his latest work, The Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers To Achieve Their Aspirations, where the goal is no longer just to stage memorable moments… but to help customers become something more. He argues that the highest form of economic value isn't what a company delivers… but what a customer becomes as a result. That shift reframes everything: experiences are no longer the end game… they are the raw material for change. Drawing on decades of research and real-world examples, Joe makes the case that businesses must move beyond efficiency and even beyond engagement… toward fostering human flourishing across dimensions like health, wealth, wisdom and purpose. It's a bold elevation of the role of business… one that demands a long-term mindset, ethical use of data, and a deeper understanding of individual customers as people, not segments. And while technologies like AI can accelerate customization and coaching, Joe is clear that tools alone won't get us there… mindset will. In a world obsessed with speed, optimization and short-term gains, this conversation is a powerful reminder that the real opportunity lies in helping people grow… not just transact. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 58:44. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with B. Joseph Pine II. Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers To Achieve Their Aspirations. The Experience Economy: Work Is Theatre And Every Business A Stage. Strategic Horizons. Follow Joe on Substack. Follow Joe on X. Follow Joe on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Experience Economy: A Game Changer. (03:07) - Understanding Experiences vs. Services. (06:01) - The Challenge of Attention in the Experience Economy. (09:05) - The Progression of Economic Value. (11:50) - Transformation: The Next Level of Value. (14:56) - The Role of Self-Service in Experiences. (18:07) - Empathy and Customer-Centric Business. (20:53) - Long-Term Thinking in Business Strategy. (31:32) - Long-Term Investment Strategies for Companies. (34:51) - The Importance of Meaningful Purpose in Business. (37:48) - Data, Analytics, and the Customization Revolution. (39:40) - Balancing Data Use and Customer Privacy. (46:51) - The Concept of Flourishing in Business. (52:15) - Experiences vs. Anti-Consumerism. (53:35) - AI: The Future of Customization and Transformation.

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