Welcome to episode #985 of Six Pixels of Separation - The ThinkersOne Podcast. Kathleen deLaski is one of the most important voices rethinking the purpose, structure, and future of higher education. As founder of the Education Design Lab and board chair of Credential Engine, she's spent the last decade helping over 1,200 colleges, organizations, and regional economies reimagine learning pathways for next-generation students - particularly the new majority learners often left behind by traditional institutions. Her new book, Who Needs College Anymore? is a provocative and optimistic look at how postsecondary education must evolve, drawing on over a decade of field research, human-centered design, and more than 150 interviews with educators, employers, learners, and policymakers. In this conversation, we unpack the diploma divide, the rising cost of education, the friction between what college teaches and what employers expect, and how AI is rewriting the script for entry-level jobs and professional training. Kathleen - whose career spans time as a journalist at ABC News, a Pentagon spokesperson, working at AOL in the early days of the Internet, and a philanthropic force behind education reform - brings not just perspective but practical ideas on how colleges, businesses, and society must adapt. This one challenges what we think college is for, and what meaningful learning might look like in a skills-based future. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 51:11. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. Check out ThinkersOne. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on X. Here is my conversation with Kathleen deLaski. Who Needs College Anymore?. Education Design Lab. Follow Kathleen on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Rise of Human-Centered Design in Education. (02:45) - Challenges in Higher Education and the Need for Innovation. (06:00) - Cultural Shifts and the Value of College. (08:53) - The Diploma Divide and Its Societal Implications. (11:54) - Affordability and Access to Education. (14:47) - The Disconnect Between Degrees and Job Market. (18:06) - The Importance of Experience Over Degrees. (21:13) - Networking and Its Role in Career Success. (29:38) - The Impact of AI on Job Markets. (32:36) - The Future of Entry-Level Jobs. (36:05) - Reevaluating Professional Education. (41:35) - The Value of Trades in Modern Society. (43:06) - Digital Learning and Its Challenges. (47:17) - Generational Perspectives on Work Ethic.

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