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Snap Judgment

The Real Fleetwood Mac - Snap Classic

28 May 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the story behind Elmer Gantry's experience with Fleetwood Mac?

2.95 - 48.888 Unknown

Snap Studios. Snappers, I have a confession to make. The truth is, the truth is that every single aspect of my professional life. Actually, every single aspect of my life in general has been predicated on the idea of fake it till you make it. If someone asked me, hey, can you act, write, dance, draft, direct, run, draw, compose, swim? I've almost always said, yeah, yeah, I can do that.

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51.431 - 84.932 Unknown

Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it absolutely did not work. Those times are called hard lessons. But generally, I'll tell the kids, go ahead. Give whatever it is a go. What's the worst that can happen? Well, it turns out that there are, in fact, certain things that you might not want to fake. Today's show, The Real Fleetwood Mac. We're going to soft rock out this piece.

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85.093 - 118.443 Unknown

My name is Gunn Washington. You're going to want to turn up the volume a little bit. Because you're listening to Snap Judgment. Our story comes from the golden age of classic rock. Tour buses, stadium, concert hall, mullets, shimmying under the bright sweaty spotlight. All the rock star stuff. And as such, there might be some language and references to drug use. Bad rock stars. Bad.

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119.665 - 126.516 Unknown

Producer John Fasile grabs the mic and goes in search of the real Fleetwood Mac. Step judgment.

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127.638 - 133.026 Gunn Washington

I'm all good. I'm gunned up and ready to fire. Here we go. Three, two, one.

136.567 - 139.47 Rich Engler

Rich Engler is a concert promoter in Pittsburgh.

139.671 - 144.456 Gunn Washington

Been doing this for 54 years, over 6,000 concerts.

144.476 - 155.068 Rich Engler

And in 1974, he gets a call from an agent in New York telling him that the band Fleetwood Mac is looking for a venue in Pittsburgh to host the first show of their U.S. tour.

155.669 - 162.457 Gunn Washington

I said, oh, you mean the first on the whole tour? This would be fantastic.

Chapter 2: How did Mick Fleetwood's personal struggles affect the band?

176.821 - 181.508 Rich Engler

Maybe not as big as they eventually became, but they had hits like Black Magic Woman.

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181.648 - 198.585 Gunn Washington

I said, this will be big news. I'll be able to advertise. Come be a part of the first date on the tour of Fleetwood Mac coming from England. You know, wow, this is a super show. So day of the show comes.

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200.187 - 208.716 Rich Engler

Minutes before Fleetwood Mac's set, Rich peers out from backstage at thousands of rock fans. He takes a deep, dank whiff.

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208.736 - 213.622 Gunn Washington

The whole place was smoked up. It was like an atomic bomb went off.

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213.922 - 214.903 Rich Engler

But there's a problem.

215.244 - 219.949 Gunn Washington

There was no appearance yet of the band. I don't see any Fleetwood Mac.

221.802 - 241.81 Rich Engler

he doesn't see a single member of the band. Not even Mick Fleetwood, the band's namesake, a long-haired, 6'6", drumming powerhouse. He's hard to miss. Rumors have been circulating that Fleetwood Mac is breaking up and that the band members are at each other's throats. So Rich has reason to be worried.

242.29 - 255.588 Gunn Washington

There's nobody, you know, they have not arrived yet. What is going on? And all of a sudden, boom, the door opens up. I see one, two, three. Four or five guys walk in and straight back into the dressing room.

256.068 - 261.375 Rich Engler

Rich doesn't recognize any of these dudes, but they are definitely not Fleetwood Mac.

Chapter 3: What challenges did Elmer and his band face during the tour?

301.138 - 320.832 Gunn Washington

You're never going to see them again. This is Fleetwood Mac. And I go, oh, no, no way. I said, this is not happening again. He rears back his arm to slug me. He starts to swing, and as he swings, I lunge forward. My natural instinct was to dive at him.

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321.433 - 329.141 Rich Engler

Rich wraps his arms around the manager's chest, and the two topple backward into a wall. A security guard comes rushing over.

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329.161 - 352.587 Gunn Washington

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You guys break it up. What's going on? Next thing I know, the band runs on stage, and they start playing. What has just happened? I'm in the twilight zone. I'm like pacing around. I didn't know what to do. I know that people were going to be so, so upset. And this is total BS.

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353.507 - 358.872 Rich Engler

What Rich doesn't know is that the guys in the band are feeling pretty much the same way he is.

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361.275 - 369.462 Elmer Gantry

You know, going on stage, thinking, my God, you know, we don't really want to be doing this. This doesn't feel right. But we didn't know how to get out of it.

370.133 - 379.323 Rich Engler

The frontman of the band billed as Fleetwood Mac that night was a blonde singer with a soulful, ragged voice who went by the name Elmer Gantry.

379.864 - 385.59 Elmer Gantry

A lot of people say, oh, Elmer, you were in the bogus Fleetwood Mac. I mean, it was easier to go, yeah, that's right.

386.631 - 394.74 Rich Engler

The real reason Elmer was on that stage and felt like he couldn't leave was because he'd been asked to go on by drummer Mick Fleetwood himself.

396.037 - 403.147 Elmer Gantry

We knew what we knew, which was that we were doing it because Fleetwood had come to our house and said it all and laid it all out.

Chapter 4: How did the audience react to the 'new' Fleetwood Mac?

453.444 - 458.575 Mick Fleetwood

I was coming unglued emotionally. It was heartbreak heaped on heartache for me.

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459.216 - 466.392 Elmer Gantry

He just split up with his wife. She was a singer. He said he really needed a rest, needed to get his head together.

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467.013 - 479.2 Rich Engler

So Mick was headed to Africa for some R&R. And while he was gone, he wanted Elmer and Kirby to help him form a new lineup of Fleetwood Mac, with Elmer as the lead singer and Kirby on lead guitar.

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479.332 - 501.322 Elmer Gantry

And I thought, well, this makes perfect sense, actually. We've got the kind of British blues rock background. We would just slide into these positions naturally, really. So it seemed it wasn't even really a surprise. It was exciting. It was delightful. But it wasn't really. It wasn't like, oh, my God, why did you think of us? I mean, that never occurred to me.

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501.602 - 507.55 Elmer Gantry

It was obvious why we would have been thought of, because of who we were and what we were doing, what we'd been doing, you know.

511.225 - 524.158 Rich Engler

In the 60s, Elmer fronted Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera, a band known for their wild shows and the song Flames, covered by an early version of Led Zeppelin. They'd even shared a bill once with Fleetwood Mac.

525.039 - 528.362 Elmer Gantry

That was definitely known. I mean, it may not have been famous, but I was notorious.

531.145 - 538.212 Rich Engler

Kirby, on the other hand, was in the band Curved Air. He was barely out of his teens, but he could shred with the best of them.

539.677 - 543.585 Elmer Gantry

and he had a kind of guitar, and yet he did wonderful things with it.

Chapter 5: What led to the infamous Pine Tar Game involving George Brett?

698.918 - 701.462 Rich Engler

But then, it's time to get on the plane and go.

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701.482 - 711.737 Elmer Gantry

We were a bit annoyed that he hadn't come down to rehearsals, but I don't think the plan was ever for him to travel with us. I thought Mick would be going first class under his own steam, you know.

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720.425 - 726.715 Rich Engler

January 1974. Elmer first steps foot in America, a place he'd never been.

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726.755 - 740.577 Elmer Gantry

Everything was discovery. New, discovery, exciting. I mean, it was one of those things that when you're sort of 14 or 15, you know, it's like, I want to have a hit record. I want to tour America.

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741.248 - 745.173 Rich Engler

And their first stop is that show booked by promoter Rich Angler.

745.533 - 746.674 Gunn Washington

How are you, my friend?

747.115 - 748.437 Rich Engler

At a theater in Pittsburgh.

748.977 - 755.084 Gunn Washington

It's 3,500 seats. So I go on sale, boom, the thing sells out like right away.

755.665 - 758.268 Elmer Gantry

It was rammed. Absolutely rammed.

Chapter 6: How did George Brett's bat controversy unfold during the game?

863.443 - 868.67 Gunn Washington

I couldn't believe it. I was in the middle of a bogus Fleetwood, Fleetwood Foe Mac.

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872.115 - 880.285 Rich Engler

As Elmer grabs the mic, he's feeling loose, ready. He'd already thoroughly prepared with what he called his gig kit.

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880.518 - 889.487 Elmer Gantry

some speed, a quarter bottle of rum, and some weed. Getting the balance between being disinhibited enough but being functional enough.

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891.349 - 898.676 Rich Engler

The band doesn't feel like they have a choice now. They don't know what the consequences will be if they don't hold up their end of the bargain.

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899.557 - 906.083 Elmer Gantry

It was just about, let's get on, show them what we can do, this is going to be good. And there were some numbers you'd go, this is going to blow them away.

907.725 - 928.391 Gunn Washington

And the band went straight into rattlesnake shape. To my astonishment and amazement, the band was actually good. They learned all the songs and they were pulling off this to the audience. They're like going nuts, loving it. The crowd was going crazy.

931.615 - 936.182 Rich Engler

Not many seem to notice that this Fleetwood Mac ain't exactly Fleetwood Mac.

936.783 - 941.49 Gunn Washington

We either gave three or five refunds out of 3,500 people.

941.808 - 949.443 Elmer Gantry

Went down a f***ing storm, did two encores. It was fantastic. It just went down a bomb. We played really well. It was amazing.

Chapter 7: What were the consequences of the Pine Tar incident for Brett?

1022.98 - 1024.962 Elmer Gantry

And we thought, this is really bad.

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1026.043 - 1036.452 Rich Engler

Many of the articles note that Mick Fleetwood is still a member of the band and intending to join them. But by the time the tour reaches New York City, he still hasn't shown.

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1036.512 - 1046.622 Elmer Gantry

Because of the publicity in the media and the press, that kind of stuff, the worry was going on stage and were you going to get hit by a bottle before you even started playing?

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1047.58 - 1055.134 Rich Engler

Half an hour before going on stage at the Academy of Music in New York City, for the first time ever, Elmer loses his voice.

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1055.675 - 1064.712 Elmer Gantry

I could hardly speak. You know, I reacted really badly to air conditioning. I mean, the fact that I smoked and there was an amount of fags as well.

1065.594 - 1070.162 Rich Engler

Cliff insists that the band go on and play anyway without Elmer.

1070.581 - 1081.073 Elmer Gantry

You know, an instrumental set, no matter how good it was, was not really what the audience had come to see. And I felt bad for the other boys because I just figured, you know, we need to do this together.

1082.074 - 1092.607 Rich Engler

After limbering up with some karate moves, Cliff goes on stage to address the increasingly hostile crowd. He takes the microphone and calls for silence.

1093.768 - 1103.313 Elmer Gantry

He said, I am Fleetwood Mac. We took that with a pinch of salt and went nuts.

Chapter 8: What ultimately happened to Elmer Gantry after the tour?

1230.457 - 1232.719 Rich Engler

They're now the new Fleetwood Mac.

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1232.902 - 1235.847 Elmer Gantry

And it's our job to go on stage and prove how good we are.

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1237.129 - 1246.344 Rich Engler

But the bad press continues to follow them wherever they go. Articles calling the band members phony, faceless, masquerading unknowns.

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1246.844 - 1249.729 Elmer Gantry

These unknowns, all this cobblers.

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1250.384 - 1263.195 Rich Engler

As the band moves west, gigs start to get canceled left and right. People call in complaining, asking for refunds. The Deputy Attorney General of Idaho even files a lawsuit after their show.

1263.344 - 1282.651 Elmer Gantry

But the weird thing was, we carried on and we were still going down a storm. Some of the gigs, they were brilliant. I mean, you know, getting up and performing, you kind of, everything else goes out of the window and you're concentrating on what you're doing. And it was a good lineup. Musicians that, you know, I could rely on to do the job. It felt great and it went down great.

1283.172 - 1290.002 Elmer Gantry

Considering the situation that we were in and all the news and the bad publicity, getting encores at gigs was kind of quite surprising.

1290.883 - 1292.946 Rich Engler

At one show, they lose power.

1293.044 - 1320.957 Elmer Gantry

The back line all went down. Everything went down apart from the PA system. And I just scattered and made stuff up for about 10 minutes and got the audience involved and then clapping and stamping and right into it. And when the sound came back on again, there was this eruption of applause. You know, you get that kind of feel when it's all going well. You know you've got the audience.

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