Something You Should Know
Why You Should Talk More Often & How People Get Brainwashed
Mon, 02 Jun 2025
Zoom and other platforms have made virtual meetings very convenient and allow people in different locations to gather together in one place. Still, virtual meetings can be inefficient and can waste a lot of time if people aren’t aware of some common don’ts. This episode starts with a list of things not to do or say that can streamline those meetings. One thing that sets us apart from all other animals is our ability to speak and communicate with a complex language. So, we talk. We talk to each other, to ourselves and to no one in particular. The process of creating speech is complicated and it turns out it does more than just communicate our thoughts. there are a lot of benefits to talking out loud and to ourselves. We need to talk according to my guest Maryellen MacDonald. She is a cognitive scientist and professor of psychology and language sciences at the University of Wisconsin−Madison. She is also author of the book More Than Words: How Talking Sharpens the Mind and Shapes Our World (https://amzn.to/44VKNZ5). You often hear the term – “brainwashing” but what is it really? How does it work to get people to join a cult or believe some fringe theory that most people think is crazy? It’s interesting that we only think people have been brainwashed if what they believe differs from what we believe. Here to help us understand brainwashing is Rebecca Lemov. She is a historian of science at Harvard University and author of the book ok The Instability of Truth: Brainwashing, Mind Control, and Hyper-Persuasion (https://amzn.to/3Fw8Pzn). Price optimization. It’s a term that describes why you may be paying more for car insurance than you need to even if you’ve been a loyal customer to your existing car insurer. Listen and you could end up saving a lot of money. https://consumerfed.org/testimonial/consumer-federation-of-america-sends-letter-highlighting-opposition-to-price-optimization/ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS!!! CARAWAY: If you have been eyeing their internet famous 12 piece cookware set, now is the perfect time to buy! Enjoy fast, free shipping, easy returns, and a 30-day trial. Plus, if you visit Carawayhome.com/SYSK you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. Caraway. Non-Toxic cookware made modern. MINT MOBILE: Ditch overpriced wireless and get 3 months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month at https://MintMobile.com/something ! FACTOR: Eat smart with Factor! Get 50% off at https://FactorMeals.com/something50off ROCKET MONEY: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster! Go to https://RocketMoney.com/SOMETHING QUINCE: Elevate your shopping with Quince! Go to https://Quince.com/sysk for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns! INDEED: Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at https://Indeed.com/SOMETHING right now! DELL: Introducing the new Dell AI PC . It’s not just an AI computer, it’s a computer built for AI to help do your busywork for you! Get a new Dell AI PC at https://Dell.com/ai-pc Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What are the common mistakes to avoid on Zoom calls?
Right. So I would say you've identified two out of the three kinds of levels of talking to yourself. There's the possibly fleeting one in your head. There's the talking out loud to yourself that, as you say, sounds more... important and maybe lasting. And the third one that researchers have identified is writing it down in a journal, in a letter to yourself, in a letter to somebody else.
The act of writing is slower, more deliberative, and has even more of this sticky, long-lasting feeling. You can probably make your even talking in your head feeling more like talking out loud by really concentrating on it and trying to do it strongly, in a way.
And in fact, in sports psychology, athletes are coached to talk to themselves, usually in their head, but out loud if they feel like it, to boost their attention, squeeze out more focus, more determination, better performance in whatever athletic endeavor they're doing.
And the coaching helps them take that fleeting thought and be more deliberative about what it is that they're saying to themselves, because they don't really have the opportunity to stop and write it down in the middle of whatever athletic thing they're doing.
I want to go back to something you said, and maybe it just is what it is and there's no story here. But you said people, there are some people who report they have no voice in their head. So when they read, what does that look like for them? Because when I read, I hear the words in my head. That's how I read.
Yeah, most people do. And little electrodes put on people's mouths while they're reading for most people show just slight activation of, for example, your lips or your tongue as you're reading, even though you're not a person who's reading out loud.
Apparently, and this is a really new area, there are a subset of people who say they don't have a voice in their head, either when they're thinking or when they are reading. And the people reading who don't hear a voice in their head seem to just get to the meaning of what they're reading.
And those of us who do have a voice in our head are probably getting to the meaning and the sounds of the words. So it seems to be possible that readers can sometimes just get to meaning without having a conscious awareness of sounds in their head when they're reading.
You know what's interesting to me? Children are always talking to themselves. If you peek into a child's room while they're playing, they are narrating everything they're doing.
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Chapter 6: What is brainwashing and how does it work?
Yeah. So earlier we talked about how when you talk, you have to get the right words out, which requires a lot of concentration. And kids need to have that exercise. So Educators talk about certain kinds of lessons in school being a, quote, desirable difficulty. It works the kid's brain hard and it has desirable consequences.
Their brain gets a workout and they get better and learn more and more skilled and so on. Talking is a desirable difficulty for little kids. It's got all that concentrating to get the words. It's managing the back and forth of conversations and turn taking. It's planning out what they want to say. It's the exercise of turning some internal idea into their actual speech.
And all of those have a desirable difficulty that tunes the kid's perception and ability to concentrate and what's called executive function, their ability to regulate their emotions and plan ahead and so on.
You know, that's really interesting because you don't hear that message much, but it makes total sense that if kids aren't talking, then they're not developing the skill of talking. They're just having to listen or passively watch a tablet that just doesn't engage that whole part of the deal.
That's right. And then they get to school and school discourages talking. And there are all sorts of studies that show that talking actually boosts learning. There's pretty much nothing you can't learn better if you're talking about it. And yet our school situation is such that with very few exceptions, children are told to be quiet and listen to the teacher. And Don't talk.
And all this wisdom we have about how talking benefits the talker really runs up against not only those misapprehensions in parenting about why it would be okay to hand your kid a tablet, but also all these misapprehensions in the education system where people think that the ideal form of learning is to sit quietly. And it's not. It's to engage by talking.
What about the idea of talking and emotions? You know, we hear, and the reason people go to therapy is to talk about things, to talk about their emotions. What's the connection from your perspective?
When we're in some intense emotional state, we don't often know exactly what we're feeling. We might be able to say upset, but that could be lots of things. It turns out that doing the work to talk and specifically name what we're feeling clarifies our emotions for us. Therapists ask, and how does that make you feel?
in part because the therapist wants to know how the client is feeling, but the therapist is asking that question because the act of naming the emotion is beneficial to the talker themselves. So when you're feeling upset, try to stop and say to yourself or to somebody else or write it down exactly what it is you're feeling.
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