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Chapter 1: Why is your 'type' a poor predictor of attraction?
men get more of the health benefits of being in the relationship relative to women. The popular idea in the culture that's completely wrong is that, oh, she's always looking for commitment and he's looking to resist that commitment. That is just not true.
Paul Eastwick has spent his career unlocking the hidden science behind love and attraction, and he's the author of Bonded by Evolution.
If we're talking about snap judgments on apps, the hot desirable people dominate the market. For most of us, we have a demoralizing experience.
What are women looking for? What are men looking for when it comes to dating?
There's a real tendency to think that men and women are super different. Women will say that they care about things like ambition and earning potential. Basically, there were no gender differences in the appeal of these traits.
We are seeing a loneliness epidemic. Do you think it's partly because of how we interact online?
I worry about this a lot.
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Chapter 2: What factors influence what men and women look for in partners?
When we're looking for a partner, when we're dating, should we be looking for someone for the rest of our lives or for someone that suits us at that point in our lives? Because in the past, like I'm 40 now, but I've dated a number of different people. And then every time that I've gone through a breakup and I've moved to a new person, they're always different to the last person.
And a lot of my family or friends will say, that person's totally different. Why are you going for that person now? And I guess now that I'm older, I realize, well, I don't want some of those traits that I met in that last person. Is that what's going on here? Yeah.
Yeah, there is some of that. It's a funny thing, because when you look at like a network of people's exes, this work's actually very challenging to do because it's not can't always get the exes to participate in the study. But if you do, what you'll sometimes see is that they just kind of all seem vaguely unrelated to each other. I mean, they might share a few things in common.
A lot of times those things are derivative of where you live, right? I would probably be dating, you know, U.S. Americans, for example, because that's where I live. But you're right that there's this funny dance of, oh, you know, I dated somebody with these qualities. those things didn't work out that well, let me now try something a little bit different. There will be other consistencies.
Some are things that really do appeal to you and other things that is, you know, you're just kind of randomly picking somebody that has the same qualities. So I think what you're describing is in part why People often find it helpful to try out different things as they're dating.
I actually think secretly the apps are taking away some of this variability because they give us so much control over who we're meeting in the first place that those experiences that you've had of dating people who are a little different from each other, I worry that people aren't having those experiences as much.
And Paul, that kind of brings us into, I guess, attraction because you mentioned the dating apps there. A lot of the time we're swiping based off what somebody looks like, not necessarily knowing anything else about them. What's the problem with just picking a mate based off attraction?
yeah i mean i think the challenge with attraction in particular is that if we're talking about snap judgments on apps or even first impressions although to a lesser extent especially on the apps there's a real tendency for the hot desirable people to kind of dominate the market And what that means is that for most of us, we have kind of a demoralizing experience on the apps.
You feel like nobody's responding to your messages or are these people even seeing my profile in the first place? I think for a lot of women in particular, they have the sense that they're actually being overwhelmed with responses, but it's really hard to know which of these are serious and which of these are just kind of tossed off randomly.
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Chapter 3: How do dating apps distort our partner choices?
This is the classic idea that like some people are nines and some people are sixes and some people are threes. So we are those judgy creatures when we first meet. But in the context you're describing, where, oh, I see you interact with these people. I see how you act under pressure. We have some in-jokes by the water cooler. What eventually happens is that opinions diverge.
In other words, we all start agreeing less and less about how dateable you are. Because, you know, for some people, I saw how they reacted under pressure and are actually, I don't really like that in-joke that we have. by the water cooler. And I kind of think you're more like a three or a four now, but somebody else actually takes more of a liking to you. Now they think that you're a nine.
This is key because what this means is that the market is not so dominated by the consensually desirable people. It gives more people opportunities to find partners. This is like a little bit of an art of socializing in groups over time that has been somewhat lost.
Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned that, Paul, because we are seeing a bit of a loneliness epidemic at the moment. Do you think it's partly because of how we interact online and how do we get out of that slump?
Yeah, I worry about this a lot. I think that the ways that we have changed the nature of our interactions are unfortunately contributing to this phenomenon. I worry a lot today about the data showing that young people, it's like they're not partying as much. I mean, they're not even just going out and hanging out to the same extent.
Not that they never do it, but there is a decline in the casual hangouts, the let's see where this night takes us kind of energy. And that's very important, especially for the people that are not at the top, top, top of the attractiveness distribution and can dominate on the dating apps. It's really important for everybody else.
In terms of how we get it back, I mean, my hope is that some of these interventions that are designed to reduce loneliness will take off in a bigger way. A lot of them have to do with events that bring people together organically over time. It seems like we're seeing a resurgence in the things like the intramural sports league for young folks and the improv classes and the dance classes, again,
where people are going to interact repeatedly over time, like in the workplace example that you mentioned earlier. So places where people get to do that casually, I am all in favor and we absolutely need more of that than ever.
Yeah, we're hearing that a lot from some of our guests, like church is becoming popular again, community coming back together in person. So I think that's a great thing. Paul, help us understand here, what are women looking for? What are men looking for when it comes to dating? Yeah.
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Chapter 4: Why aren't love languages predictive of relationship success?
Women still get health benefits too. Um, you know, wellbeing benefits. There are many things that people get out of being in a close relationship, but those things tend to accrue, um, to men a little bit more.
So, but again, this is such a small gender difference that I would tend not to cast aspersions at any movie that showed it in reverse with the woman sort of wondering like, what are we, we need to define things. I think the popular idea in the culture that's completely wrong is that, oh, she's always looking for commitment and he's looking to resist that commitment.
That is just not true in any way, shape or form. If anything, it's slightly in the reverse.
Just when you said that there about men getting health benefits from being in a relationship, I can relate to that completely because I've been married for eight years. I'm now single. And how I would define my life right now, I feel like I'm single, but I'm bouncing off the walls a bit. In the relationship, it's much more steady. I'm a much more steady, calm person.
Is that what men find in a relationship? Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's spot on. There's it's like a sense of activation. We usually look at this in breakup, but I bet it extends into singlehood, too. It's like an activation of a physiological system that is designed for fight or flight. You know, when people go through a breakup, it's like alarming.
But I think, too, as people sort of move into singledom and they start like, you know, looking for partners and things, there's still some of that that's there. It's like a little bit of heightened activation. Testosterone increases, too, when people are single. There's a relationship status difference in people's sort of resting levels of testosterone.
Because again, it's like you're out there, you know, looking, meeting new people. It's all very activating, but it can be very draining too. So when we look later in life and we see how people adjust, like after they've lost a spouse, one of the reasons it's tough is, yeah, there are practical things. It's easier to live if you're older.
If you've got somebody there with you, you can make sure you're taking your medication, etc., But some of it is a direct physiological consequence of having another person nearby. Like we evolved in a context where close others were near to us, like our body expects that.
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Chapter 5: What does research say about compatibility in relationships?
I mean, there will be some people who will say it would be too painful for me to be apart from my kids on a daily basis for me to do that. I would rather like endure this unsatisfying relationship. So I think in terms of like advice or like what I would say to a friend in this situation is I would try to focus on like how happy is my friend and are they not really themselves anymore?
Because it's very hard for me to know exactly what's going on in somebody else's relationship or their full context. But if that person seems like like you're not the happy person that you used to be. You know, personally, I would tend to craft my advice around that.
Paul, do you think we're living in a society now where we're less monogamous, like people aren't as, I guess, excited to jump into a long term relationship anymore?
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I see these trends. I think that, you know, you see these trends in sort of the, I would say, greater acceptance of polyamory, greater appreciation of that polyamory. mode of having relationships. I think that's all a wonderful thing. I think also the idea that we have a greater acceptance of people being single now. You don't have to be partnered to be happy.
So I think there is a real reduction in stigma today that allows people to find lifestyles that better suit them. I think as well, like the bonded attached relationship isn't really likely to be going anywhere. But I'm always compelled to point out, look, the thing I believe about humans is that we are creatures that bond. And we bond in romantic context. We bond in platonic context, too.
But those bonds are essential because we really feel like we need to belong. We need to belong to a group and we need to have close others within that group who we feel like they have got our back. That is often goes hand in hand with romantic and sexual connections. But it does not have to. You can have that sense of need to belong met through somebody that is not a sexual connection.
And in principle, it is possible, although hard, but possible to have an ongoing sexual relationship with somebody without feeling feeling that sense of bondedness and that sense of connection and without having that threaten any other bonded sexual relationships you might have. So it's a challenging thing to do.
I don't think people are giving up their bonds anytime soon, but might people give up the norm that you only have sex with one person and that that doesn't have to destroy the attachments that you might have with somebody by having sex with somebody else? I do think some people are better able to navigate that these days.
I always find it interesting why people choose to study certain things. Do you remember what it was for you that drew you to this topic to study this when you were younger?
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