In episode 659, Rob Walling speaks with Courtland Allen and Channing Allen, the co-founders of Indie Hackers, to talk about their newfound independence since they are no longer owned by Stripe. For the first half of the episode, they turn the tables and interview Rob about his new book, The SaaS Playbook. They also share a bunch of theories about entrepreneurship and investing. Topics we cover: 4:46 - About Rob’s new book - The SaaS Playbook 6:47 - Why did Rob hire a writing coach? 12:35 - Rob’s decision to launch a Kickstarter for his book 20:39- Rob’s thought process for what to include in his book 28:31 - Startup positioning 31:07 - Founder mindset 35:51 - Is it possible to find a business idea that both makes money and aligns with the things you enjoy doing? 42:38 - What motivates Rob these days? 48:18 - Courtland and Channing’s approach to going indie again with Indie Hackers 53:46 - Did Courtland and Channing have hesitations about going independent again? 57:44 - What does Rob want to see Courtland and Channing do next? 1:01:07 - Indie hackers investing in other indie hackers Links from the Show: Courtland Allen (@csallen) I Twitter Channing Allen (@channingallen) I Twitter Indie Hackers The Personal MBA: Master the Art of Business The War of Art Lifting the Veil: The Data Behind Successful Product Launches - Ryan Delk - MicroConf 2014 MicroConf Upcoming Events MicroConf Mastermind Matching MicroConf Youtube Channel If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you. Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify | Stitcher

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.