John Barnes: Liverpool Legend, Battles with United & Tackling Racism | Stick to Football EP 112

18.25 - 21.413 Ian Wright

Keep away from those sweets.

23.756 - 40.718 John Barnes

Can I tell stories about Ian Wright from the old days? No. I looked after him in the World Cup 90. I tried to, you know, educate him. I tried chopping down a Sean's Elysee. Oh. Honestly, nearly got us banned from every store. No, I did. I just didn't want some of the stuff. It was rubbish. Yeah, but there's ways of doing it.

40.759 - 47.068 John Barnes

When you're in a nice place, you kind of, like, go, oh, well, that's not too bad. I don't like it.

47.088 - 51.835 Ian Wright

No. That was before I refined myself, before we moved to West London. Absolutely.

52.216 - 54.018 Jamie Carragher

How old would you have been then, were you?

105.49 - 105.891 Jamie Carragher

Oh, really?

108.233 - 112.5 Gary Neville

Jill's got a vision of me and John.

112.56 - 117.367 John Barnes

I took him off after a few minutes. A tear of coffee. Are they looking out yet? No, they're not, mate.

117.387 - 127.563 Gary Neville

They haven't looked after me at all, but I know you will. A tear of coffee. And John, you were unbelievable to me. For half an hour you talked to me, I thought, do you know something? This is a man who literally scarred and ruined.

127.663 - 133.232 John Barnes

But please don't tell them what I spoke to you about. A tear of coffee. Whatever it is, mate.

2591.66 - 2620.385 Roy Keane

John, you know the Liverpool team you come into, I always describe you as the Thierry Henry, basically, of that time, from 87 to sort of 91. There you go, I'll pass you another 20 quid. You then come into a Liverpool team, let's say the Premier League Liverpool team, that just fell short up against the lads Manchester United. I got a little glimpse of that as I was a young player coming through.

2621.026 - 2626.577 Roy Keane

What were the differences there? Was it a mentality thing? Was it a quality thing? It was a Liverpool thing.

2626.945 - 2638.903 John Barnes

So therefore, when I look at the men, because of course, you know, you're similar ages to Jamie and Maka and all of them. So you have this, and they have this Spice Boys image. And I know because of course, at Manchester United, not saying that you would have been one of them, but you look at Giggs and Becks and stuff.

2639.063 - 2652.143 John Barnes

If Fergie wasn't strict with them, they could have, you know, Giggs liked a night out, Becks and whatever. So Fergie was very strong. Whereas Liverpool's way was, we do not, A, we do not coach you. And we do not tell you how to live your life. But when you come to training on a Monday, you could be doing whatever you perform.

2652.123 - 2667.027 John Barnes

now that's fine if you're experiencing you know what but you know so that philosophy is not good for young players because Liverpool never had young players they'd always sign one or two players and mixing with the old players and you learn the Liverpool way when all of a sudden you know they had five or six young players coming in and

2761.221 - 2773.457 John Barnes

I think so. As much as you say it was controlled, it was controlled by Fergie. Because listen, I know Rob, we used to go out with him. Rob Owen and Paul McGrath and Norman Whiteside. So of course, if you're a young player and you're not being controlled by a figure like that...

2774.433 - 2797.892 John Barnes

as much as a bit different because I don't know whether the peer pressure was on you because I know what it's like even growing up you know people go come on have a drink and if you're not if you remember with Sir Alex with gigs in Sharp he turned up at the house yeah yeah yeah on yeah and literally dragged gigs out literally put him basically that was like I said you don't look at Liverpool if you didn't if you didn't want they didn't really trust you if you didn't want to go out and have a drink pre-season you know we're going out yeah

2797.872 - 2802.983 John Barnes

Players who don't go out, even the staff were like, what's the matter with them? You know what I mean? It was a completely different way.

2803.263 - 2816.789 John Barnes

Now, the problem was when you have experienced players, yes, you can go out, you can have a drink, but you know what to do, you know when to... For youngsters, you can't just allow them to do whatever they want, particularly if you're going to influence them in that way. And at Liverpool, the Liverpool way was you do whatever you want.

2817.03 - 2828.744 John Barnes

The difference is that I remember even after Christmas parties, even after a night out, when you came into training, you couldn't not train better than everybody else. As much as, you know, you could be sick behind the thing because you haven't had a drink, you couldn't then all of a sudden not turn up and train.

2952.366 - 2964.961 John Barnes

What's he doing? John Barnes is not doing that. But I understood that this is the way I have to play in this team, in that position. So it was easy for me to make that transition because of the way I'd been brought up in Watford, playing in different positions. Now, the fans aren't going to appreciate me because Barnes is not the same, because he's not doing what he did.

2965.382 - 2966.923 John Barnes

But I knew I had to play in that way, in that position.

2966.944 - 2981.26 Roy Keane

Well, I actually, I mean, I wasn't going to mention, my second game for Liverpool, I played centre midfield. I come on sub at half-time against West Ham. Me and you played. Me and you played. Do you not remember that, John? No, no, no. That's why you ran around more than me.

2981.401 - 2999.903 Roy Keane

But the point I was trying to make was, your journey in football is different to players now in terms of academies, and we're talking about producing more technical footballers, and they're in the academies three or four times a week, they're touching the ball more, and all that. But even though I've been out of Liverpool for, say, over ten years now,

3001.469 - 3020.873 Roy Keane

I still never played with a more technical footballer than yourself and Jan Molby. And that was almost like that's 80s players, really. So we talk about sort of technical ability. Where are you in terms of how you became so good technically, but sort of the academies now? Do you think that has produced more technically players?

3161.215 - 3173.118 John Barnes

The problem with playing out from the back is it takes all 10 outfield players, because if they're going to press you with four, how are you going to play out from the back? Other players have to get in different positions. All it takes, if you're playing out from the back, is for two midfield players not to show, not to be in the position, and it breaks down.

3173.338 - 3189.064 John Barnes

So it's not about you, it's about the team as well, to give you that space and to make sure that you can, you should be able to play two touch, from the goalkeeper gives you the ball, all the way through, When they get into the final third, yes, you need some skill. But that's where everybody has to be on the same page. So when you talk about the technique or the skill, it's not just about you.

3189.084 - 3202.063 Jill Scott

Because if Xavi didn't have anyone to play a one, two, four, or for somebody to look for the ball, Xavi can't do it. Yeah, but you just mentioned it, John, but that's just having a vision in your head. It's called football intelligence space. When to take one touch. You see that midfielder's now taking four, five, six touches. You see the Barcelona.

3202.363 - 3204.746 Jill Scott

Give it, get it back, even if it's to move somebody a yard. Yeah.

3204.766 - 3210.614 John Barnes

Why do they have four touches? Because when they get the ball, the person they want to pass to is not there. And they haven't got an option. And then when he gets it, there's no other option.