Straight Talk with Mark Bouris
#222 Richard de Crespigny: The Pilot Who Saved 440 Qantas Passengers
17 Dec 2025
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Richard McCracken. Welcome to Straight Talk, mate.
Thanks, Mark. Great to be here.
Now, we did something many, many years ago. I think it was the Mark Boros show, but this is Straight Talk. It's a different show. And it's actually timely that you're in here. I mean, you've got a couple of reasons. We want to talk again about your book that you released many years ago. I want to talk to you about that.
um the sorts of presentations you make around leadership and teamwork etc because i think it's really important for people to know about that stuff right at the moment especially um but also and i know you've got a new podcast called fly and we're going to talk about uh we were talking earlier but you know podcasts are tough things to do so we'll talk about they're very tough we'll talk about fly but but i i just want to talk to you about airplanes and uh or commercial airplanes
And I wouldn't mind touching on private aircraft as well, because I've got a mate who's got private aircraft, which he leases out to anyone who wants to use it. So, and I think Australians... travel more now than we ever have in the past. I have got no stats to prove that.
Aviation is growing 15% a year.
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Chapter 2: What led to the Qantas Flight 32 incident?
In terms of number of aeroplanes in the sky.
Since the 1970s. Well, aeroplanes can't keep up. Passengers travel. So everything is congested. Airports, airspace, not enough aircraft. Some of the new engines are being pushed so hard they're not working. So some of the older tech is actually better than the new ones.
Oh, really?
Yeah. Yeah, the airlines are actually saying, can we please go back to the previous generation of engines? Because the new generation engines, you see, everyone's trying to outdo the next manufacturer of engines. They say, I'm going to promise 5% on the last engine. They're pushing these engines to the max. And now they're going too far. Gearboxes, turbine blades are overheating.
These sort of things are happening and a lot of engines are being grounded. The aircraft is still safe because you have recording systems that show a degradation over time so they can predict that the engine is going to have a problem in 100 hours, 1,000 hours. So they take them offline before they fail.
Hopefully.
Yeah, they do. Normally they do. And they repair them. But a lot of engines are grounded around the world, causing troubles for the new A220, for 787s, for the Boeing 7. All aircraft are having problems getting enough engines from the manufacturers. The old engines are working reliably, long time. The new engines... are having trouble bedding in.
And I will declare up front, I am a nervous traveller. So whether it's commercial, private, and if I had a choice, if I had to go to, say, Queensland, if I had time, I'd rather drive. And I don't mind the drive actually, but as opposed to taking the risk for inconvenience, for convenience, I should say, which is traveling by plane.
And I'm someone who travels literally every week somewhere, every week, sometimes twice. So just this, I do want to talk to you, but the first thing I want to cover off is QF32. Is QF32 the QF32?
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Chapter 3: How did teamwork play a role in the crisis management during QF32?
And that was your flight in Singapore. Changed my life. Let's just take me through what happened again. Take our audience through what happened on QF32.
Okay. It was a routine flight from Singapore to Sydney, the 4th of November, 2010. So we're coming up to 15 years. And we're four minutes after takeoff, engine number two exploded.
So you've got four engines?
Four. Four engines on this A380, the biggest, most wonderful aircraft in the sky.
You say that? Absolutely.
Still, still the most remarkable aircraft. A380. And the A380, the quietest, smoothest. I'm going to write that down for myself because I make sure I'm always on A380. People will divert a thousand miles to start their journey just to pick up an A380. It is so quiet. Compared to the, say, 737, it's about four times, one quarter of the noise.
It was so quiet on that A380 that day that when engine number two exploded four minutes after takeoff, one passenger didn't even know we were in the air. He thought we'd hit a... a pothole on the runway. So it's really quiet, powerful, spacious. You don't get claustrophobic. It's not too big in terms of open spaces. So the passengers love it.
If you have a fear of flying, you're going to love the 380 because it calms your nerves. If you get onto a 737 that has up to 95 decibels of noise, then that would really make you nervous because even for a takeoff. And it's about 85 decibels in the cruise, which is safe for no more than eight hours in the workplace.
I mean, the 737 is a great aeroplane, but it first flew before Neil Armstrong landed on the moon. It first flew in 1967. Wow. And they're derived versions from that, but that core technology. Imagine taking a 1960s Ford Mustang and saying, what a great car.
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Chapter 4: What are the lessons learned from the QF32 incident?
Like a valve. A valve. It's the thing that opens the valve. Or even a light. So the concept is that you are now separated. There is no direct connection other than electrical from what you're pressing to what happens at the far end. That gives you amazing ability to interfere or intercept that signal and add value to it or to modify it.
So in terms of aircraft, what the pilots do with the thrust levers and the side stick, They are inputs into computers that massage them. If the computers think you're not doing the right thing, they might even override it.
The computers in an F-16, F-22, F-35, if the pilots don't avoid the ground, and these fighter aircraft are meant to be close to the ground, but if the computer thinks they're going to hit the ground, the computer interferes, takes over and pulls them away from the ground.
It's an override.
It's an override.
Interesting.
Maybe the pilots in Ukraine turned that override off when they started flying F-16s in Ukraine.
Oh, you can't turn the override off?
A lot of F-16s were crashing from pilots, particularly in F-16s. They'd pull so much G that the blood wouldn't get to the head, they'd blackout. And if they're close to the ground, they'd die. So when they put in this software to...
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Chapter 5: How does aviation safety compare to other industries?
So if we go back to 380, the A380, which is the QF32 flight, and you're taking off and one of the engines blows up,
I think this is a confidence thing for people like me.
Can I ask you a couple of questions? One, is it less risky if I get on a plane with four engines? One, that seems to me to be the case, but I'm asking the question. Two, What do I need? What happens inside the cockpit there? So how many people are in there? And let's say, you know, how many people have got to help you in the event that one of the engines has blown up or is caught on fire?
So take me through that process.
Safety. Is it more safe with four engines? Yes. Right. Because all aircraft designed that they lose an engine, then, well, that's part of the certification. You just assume that you're losing an engine at some point. If you lose it too early in the takeoff, you have to stop the takeoff.
How do you mean before you actually get off the ground?
Halfway down the runway. Yeah, yeah. If you lose an engine, you can stop.
Right.
And if you have two engines, you keep going. Once you, if you get beyond about halfway down the runway, this is very general. Yeah. If you lose an engine, you keep going. And the performance is designed for you to get safely off the ground and come back and land.
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Chapter 6: What is the significance of resilience in leadership?
They're not anxious. They have a chronic unease for the status quo. Every takeoff, they're expecting an engine to fail. Sounds skeptical, pessimistic.
That's the mindset, yeah.
But they're ready for the engine failure. No, I'd rather be that way. They're ready for the engine failure. If it happens, they go bang. And everyone's ready. Everyone understands. They're ready for an engine failure at any time. If you've ever flown on a helicopter, look at the pilot. They have windows down near their feet, and they're often looking down through that.
Yeah, scary.
Because that's where they're going if the engine fails.
I've been on a helicopter plenty of times, and I've decided I'm never going to go on a helicopter again.
But my point is that we train the things that might scare us. We train the difficult things. So number one, it doesn't scare us. Two, they become habits. And three, we become resilient when things go wrong. We don't suffer the fear response, maybe like the passengers.
So that was an important point, that resilient piece. So therefore, you're making yourself resilient, right? Maybe explain to me, because this could be equally applied to business or all sorts of things. So what is it that you believe that you do and practice and or pilots do and practice every time there's a takeoff, every time there's a landing that makes them resilient?
Take me through that process.
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Chapter 7: How do pilots prepare for emergencies in the cockpit?
Was there anything that you've done in your past in terms of day-to-day practice or awareness or whatever allowed you to be the person in charge?
That is a really good question. And because if you understand that background, then you can explain why things happened on QF32. People ask the same question. So I had to write the second book, which I call The Elements of Resilience. I had to work out because a lot of the answers to these questions go back to how you're reared as a child. I rode motorbikes through the bush.
We're about 10 years of age. And I tell my dad, we're going off for the day into a state forest of 300 square miles. And I'll say, you see your dinner. That's all he knew. We were off with riding motorbikes. Didn't know where we were going other than into the 300 square miles.
You're lucky your dad allowed you to do that too, by the way.
Right. But the bikes broke down. We ended up in hospital a few times and we had to repair the bikes, had to maintain them. It gave us all these skills of knowledge and it gave us a whole lot of experience, both mental and physical. Physical skills to really maneuver the motorbike hard and to push your body and You're getting out of control, out of your comfort zone. You have to recover.
Riding motorbikes when I was young and getting filthy dirty and cold and wet was a great, really a critical part of my early past. So to answer some of the questions, I have to go back that far to the motorbikes. So the second book about resilience, I identified eight elements. Now, just bear with me because this applies to you personally, corporately, nationally, right? Knowledge.
You've got to know something. You've got to learn and train. You've got to commit to a lifetime of learning and change.
So just go back, knowledge. So knowledge about your subject matter, a broad knowledge. Then you've got to continue updating about the subject matter.
You've got to know information down to its core. It's getting hard today because we've got black boxes we don't understand. But if you don't understand the black box, don't be afraid of it. You must know how to turn it off. Which black box to turn off first. and how to turn it off. That applies in aircraft.
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Chapter 8: What are the challenges faced by modern aviation?
So they have to use all these eight elements of resilience to think up a novel solution that no one's thought of to solve the problem because they can't call for help. They can't stop. And so it's this combination of knowing the standard operating procedures when things are good and having the skill to create a novel solution when things go crazy or black swan events, 9-11.
This is what pilots are taught. This is what resilience is. And when you have that feeling, then you can take on anything that life throws at you. You have the confidence and the courage. You might fail a little bit, but then you can adjust and retry, right? So, and that's a feeling that I called in my second book, a feeling of being bulletproof, not gun shy, right? Bulletproof, not gun shy.
It's the sheriff that walks out in front of the gunslinger and the sheriff says, I've done all the training. I'm looking for his body movement. I've got professional training. I can beat this amateur gunslinger. And he does. So the feeling that when you've got these elements of resilience, you can take on these threats, knowing that you'll succeed.
This is what fighter pilots have when they can launch in a single-seat aircraft across enemy territory at night. How could you ever build up the confidence to do that if it wasn't a decade of training and building up all those skills and resilience?
So the aim is that all these people, from children to businesses, they all build up these elements of resilience, and then you're confident that you can face whatever life gives it you.
Tell me about your podcast, Fly.
Well, the book, The Elements of Resilience, has been a success. I now tour the world talking about resilience. I talk to medical groups.
So you have guests as a guest base?
Sorry, I haven't got to that yet. I talk to people who clear runways of snow. I talk to banks. And those talks are, and I talk about resilience. They've been received very well. So now I've got a podcast and I bring in different leaders of different parts of different industries. And I talk about first question, what's your definition of resilience?
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