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Chapter 1: What unique approach does Tom take to start conversations?
Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Okay, how are you feeling? Good, how's it going? Great. So let's explain what's happened here. We were about to sit on a bench.
Chapter 2: How does the weather affect the conversation setting?
But it started raining. Heavily. Heavily. So this is a bench first. We are on a bench. Technically. Technically. But this bench is in your van. 100%. It is a small little ledgy boy, but it's... It's a bench. You know? There you go. So, this is new territory. OK, shall I tell you how this works? Let's go. There's a start question and an end question. It's the same for everyone who does this.
And whatever happens in the middle just happens in the middle. If there's any questions you don't like, just shove me out the van. Sounds good. Sounds all right. I'm good at that. Shove me right out. First question is... Do you have a favourite day of the week? Oh. I do, Tuesday. Why? Tuesday is my quietest day of the week. It's the only day where I finish before 2pm, which is rare.
Every other day I'm working until God knows when I finish. So on Tuesday after 2, what is the dream? I just realised, we said you were in the back of a van. We should probably say this because people are going to be wondering what van. it looks like you deliver packages. I do. Unless you just have a lot of packages. Yeah, I just stole them from everyone. So, yeah, I'm a courier in the area.
Been here for six years. And Tuesday is the only day where I can finish early. And I get two days off a month. So it's consistent, hectic and mad all at the same time. But it's lovely. Does that make any sense? It does make sense. And on Tuesdays when I'm finished, I tend to do nothing. which is amazing. Pure peace. Yeah, man.
Chapter 3: What is the significance of Tuesdays for the guest?
What does nothing look like? Go home, eat, relax at home with the family, and then see the boys, if I could see the boys, and sleep. It's just... Where my life is just so heavy all the time, just to have one peaceful day just makes a massive difference. I can be human. So, yeah, that's why I like Tuesdays. That's a good answer. What would you be like?
Let's imagine one of these Tuesdays, but it's totally free. Yeah. What would be your dream way of spending that whole day? Was there anything you would particularly do? So first thing, have a fry-up. Nothing beats a good fry-up, you know? Proper English breakfast. What's in there? Sausage, beans, double hash browns. Yeah, get the double in there. Get the double hash browns. Toast as well.
Mushrooms, tomatoes, just a full whack. And I'm a skinny... Can I swear? Yeah, you can swear. I'm a skinny fat prick. So anything to do with food and then a coffee... Honestly, whatever life takes me. I don't like to plan, I like to live. Sometimes planning is a distraction from living, if that makes any sense. I just like to go with the flow of it. Can you give a go with the flow example?
um you know what last time i done it was it was quite big as well it was a spontaneous holiday okay i got the weekend off which is very rare like i never get weekends off ever yeah so do you want the weekend off yeah of course that evening i went home booked a holiday and i went to paris for the weekend superb and it was amazing how'd you find paris what's the past vibes
I'm not a fan, if I'm honest. I'm not a fan. I love it. You booked it, but you didn't love it. Yeah, you know, it's good to try different countries, different food, different cultures, and see if it's for you or for not. That's the spirit. Yeah, man. To travel is better than to arrive. What do you think it was about it? that wasn't quite like, wasn't quite your vibe?
When you go to Paris, it's basically London, but just nicer scenery. Yeah. The food was nice, with the Eiffel Tower, you know, you've got the Mona Lisa, you've got all of that lovely jubbly stuff, but it's just non-stop, just so busy, right? And the trains stink. Have you ever been to Paris? Yeah. The tubes stink! They're so bad! Right. But apart from that, it's just, yeah, I prefer London.
Yeah, that's absolutely fair. Yeah, of course. London's home. Has London always been home? Yeah. I mean, I'm 35 in a month. I came when I was three years old. Thank you, man. So tell me, right, you're about to say you came here when you were three years old. Yeah.
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Chapter 4: How did a childhood incident shape the guest's life?
From? Algeria. Fantastic. Yeah, yeah, North Africa. Beautiful sky, beautiful food, beautiful weather. Do you know why you, I mean, I'm guessing you know why you came. What was the story behind you coming? Oh, yeah, it's a lovely story, actually. Oh, is it? Okay, here we go. Yeah, yeah, so... Hit me. When I was three years old, I drank bleach. And it burned my esophagus. Hang on, hang on.
This is actually part of the story of why... I came to the UK. Because you drank bleach. I drank bleach when I was three years old in Algeria. So let me explain the picture for you. So we live in like a block of flats, right? In Algeria. In Algeria, right? And I'm on the sixth floor. And I was thirsty, and I remember it to this day, I ran upstairs, little old me, right?
I entered the kitchen, at the bottom of the kitchen, under the sink, you know, they got the cabinet, right? And we had two bottles, and the bottles looked like water, right? But they didn't have no... No labels, that's the word. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just saw it and I drank literally a lid full of bleach. And on the spot I just puked everywhere.
So the doctors in Algeria said to my mum, look, your son is not going to live, he's going to die. So I got three operations in Algeria and they sent me here for medical reasoning. So I went to Great Ormond Street Hospital. And there was a doctor, I'll never forget him actually, he's a godsend.
He said, the operation's gonna cost about realistically 20,000, but look, if you can sum up 10,000 to my mum, this is in 1994, it's a lot of money. She wasn't working, she had no paperwork, She's not a resident of the UK. She had nothing. All she came was for my son's medication and we're going to go back. This is a true story. That's amazing.
So my mum, she just took me around to all different charities, just raised 10,000 and went back to him. Here's the money, you know? Here it is. Done the operation. They had to cut 2.5 centimeters of my esophagus and they had to cut two centimeters of my intestines off as well. So they opened me up from my front and from my back. So I've got like stitches in my stomach and in my back as well.
It's a funny story. So until I was in year five, which is about 10 years old, right? I used to eat from my stomach. I was not allowed to eat hard food. So again, you used to eat through your stomach? I used to eat through my stomach. I was not allowed to eat through my mouth. So I had a tube in my stomach and I used to eat from it. Oh, whoa. Just through there? Through here.
So I used to have a tube here, and I used to have baby food pumping through it to eat. Whoa.
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Chapter 5: What challenges did the guest face growing up without a father?
And then these are the operations here. For the purpose of people who can't see, our stranger's lifted up his top to reveal that he's got this amazing, like, what do you call it, a hole? A second belly button. A second belly button. Yeah, yeah. So that was for mages, what, five to ten, you say? from the operation, which is when I was about four until I was in year five.
So about, yeah, 10 to 11 years old, give or take. So that meant you just didn't taste anything, obviously, right? No. So what was that like when you were 10? What happened then? So I was in school, in primary school, and it was lunchtime or break time. And we were playing football, from what I recall. The tube that I eat from must have fell. And because it fell, I had to go back to the hospital.
And they said, yeah, it's time to feed your son properly. He needs to learn how to chew and how to eat. I've got a lot of questions for you now. Sure. I suppose the first question that came to me was like, what was the impact on you as a person having to endure all this? You've done something completely random, age three. It's completely changed your life. Well, forever, basically.
But, like, how has it, like, shaped who you are? Who would you be without this? That's a deep question, man. You know, because of me drinking bleach, I see it in two different aspects. In one aspect, it meant that I couldn't have a proper childhood. I wasn't allowed to go out, I wasn't allowed to go to playdates and all these things with your friends.
I didn't have a chance to live with my father, right, because he stayed in Algeria, he didn't want to move back to the UK. Oh, so that meant you worked with him as well? Just me and my mum, since forever. So in that aspect, it showed me the value of having someone who actually gave their life for you to the fullest, as my mum did.
But then it also allowed me to understand people more and differently, if that makes sense. Like I understand everyone's different, everyone's had their own pain and misery, or a blessing, which I call it. Because if I didn't do that, then I wouldn't be a British resident now, or a citizen. It's given me the opportunity to make a life here and become the man that I am.
So it's a blessing and a curse, if that makes any sense. That's obviously a beautiful way of thinking about it. You know, it's important we think about these things, possibly if we can, do they help us survive it? Yeah, yeah, of course. But on the curse front, what of it has really held you back? Any bit of it? Yeah, most of it. Most of it. Like, literally most of it.
Like, it becomes an aspect where I can't do things that I want to do. Like, even till now, there's certain things that I cannot eat properly. My esophagus is too small. It's not a normal esophagus size. So then it gets stuck. This happened recently at lamb chops.
And because I didn't chew properly, it got stuck in my esophagus and I had to go to the hospital and they had to put a tube down my throat to push it down. Oh, man. I can't breathe, right? Just through one little silly mistake, it's completely... In a way, it's... It messed up my life.
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Chapter 6: How does the guest navigate relationships after a divorce?
Yeah. But then if I did, and I was like a normal kid who drank water and not bleach, I would not be here. Yeah. But it's... I mean... It is what it is, isn't it? I've got two silly questions that have come to my head. Yeah, go for it. But, like, I mean, do you find just bleach anything now just, like, triggering? Nah. Does it mean anything? Like, do you see it and, like, you're like... Nah.
I've learned not to take life too serious. Because... I grew up in a school where I used to get bullied a lot. Because I used to have a tube and everyone would see it and be like, you've got two belly buttons and you can't eat like a normal kid. It fucks up with your brain. Everyone else around me, everyone would play with everyone. That was just that one kid that was on his own a lot.
As a child, again, it messes you up dramatically. So I've learned now that I don't really care about anything or anyone or what people think. It's just okay. It is what it is and move on with your life. So when I do see bleach, I just laugh. Like my sister now, whenever she sees it, be careful, don't drink that. I love it. You can eventually laugh about everything if you wait long enough, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. That's the magic. Tell me, like, at the time, obviously, you're three, and you drunk it. Is there any part of you that places any blame on anyone? Like, obviously, I was three, I didn't know what I was doing, but... As much as you want to, you can't, cos you're just making an excuse, and excuses get you nowhere in life. I messed up, I drank bleach, I'm here now. Mm.
Could have been worse. Could have been dead. I could have blamed someone else. It's true though, isn't it? It is what it is. And that's the last thing I want to do. Start blaming someone for something that they had no knowledge of, no intention of. What difference is that going to make now? It's done. You say you had a tube in school and stuff and used to be teased and whatnot.
How did you get through that? You don't. That's the reality of it. You don't. You just have to deal with it. So how did you deal with it at the time? You just tried to not... You can't listen to it. Because you're a kid. You're going to fight someone already skinny. They're going to end up hurting me and that's it. That's another injury caused already down his body, innit?
You've got to learn to bite your tongue and leave it. Yeah. Who helped you get through that time other than yourself? I didn't tell anyone. Oh, whoa. OK. I couldn't.
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Chapter 7: What insights does the guest share about being a courier?
Why? I don't know. As silly as it sounds, it's just... In a way, it's pride, but in this way, it's... starting another problem that you don't need. Where I'm from in London, if you see something's wrong and you grasp, as they say, or snitch or tell someone, it's going to come back to you regardless. So sometimes I just let it be.
It's going to sound messed up, because I should have told someone about it. I just didn't. Not even your mum? No. As much as I love my mum and I tell her so much, I've always restricted what I told her in everything in life, which is good and bad. So what about your teachers? Do they see it at all? Or is it kind of just always away from them? It's always away from them really.
Because my mum used to come to school at lunchtime to feed me and she'd take me to a separate room which they gave to her so no one else could see me. Being fed? Yeah, to eat. But before and after, it's back to normal. And when did that kind of stop? When I went to secondary school. Yeah. So that was like a new start. That was like a new chapter. So you rock up and you're without the tubes.
Without the tubes. See that. No one knows anything about me. It's just a normal kid who's come to school. And so you can pretty much start again. Yeah. Yeah. From secondary school, this is a good while back now, thinking about it. It was the last time where I was properly happy. if that makes any sense. There was no responsibility, no bills, no expectations, just go study and do your best.
How did you place yourself in school? When you're that age, you often find a role to be the clown. Where did you put yourself? I wanted to be the clown. I'm the clown below the clown. I was the clown that got caught in everything that happened. You mean to say you're a bit cheeky when you go to court?
Yeah, you try to be cheeky, but every time your teacher catches you, you're in detention, you're in trouble. Can you think of any particular examples of things you might have done? I've done so much. I've done so much. He does so much. I've done so much. When you're young and you're childish, you don't know what you're doing. You just say it for the sake of saying it.
I think that's one habit that I've still got to now. Where I speak what I think, I don't think what I speak. Does that make sense? Got it. I see. So that would obviously land you in trouble. A lot of trouble. But yeah, I was a little, I was a little arse. When did you kind of like, maybe you haven't, I don't know, but when was the point where you kind of like became not a little arse?
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Chapter 8: What lessons does the guest learn about trust and community?
I don't know, for me, I haven't matured late. I'm like 21, maybe 22. That's very late. That makes sense, doesn't it, if you've had a childhood like yours where your growth has been stunted by lots of different stuff, in terms of emotional growth, right? Oh, yeah. It probably makes sense that it would happen later on. Yeah, yeah, so 21, I think, or 22, and I started working.
I went to university and I dropped out. And then I went to another university and I dropped out again.
It's
Let's rewind a minute. Why did you drop out of boat? I just went into it. Why did you go in the first place? I don't know, for the sake of making my mum happy. Right, because that was her thing. So I went the first year, I'd done business management and marketing. I thought, yeah, this is a good subject, let me try it. Halfway through the year I said, yeah, I'm not doing this no more.
I'd rather work. You know, there's some people who are book smart and there's some people who are work smart, if that makes any sense. Street smart? Yeah, street smart, basically. But now I'm forcing myself to learn more and read more and educate myself more. I love it. I mean, yeah, everyone can be both, I guess, or can improve at both, right? Yeah, knowledge is beautiful.
Knowledge is free, but people don't have the money to pay for it, if that makes any sense. And money is time. Yeah. Or like that kind of form of learning. I was kind of pushed into doing business studies, right? If I had the choice, I'd probably done something else and maybe I would have continued and studied and got a degree. Well, at least you can say you tried it twice. And so you drop out?
Yep. And then? So I started working in retail at Clark's, you know the shoe shop? Yeah. Loved it. That's where I really learnt to grow and become more of a man, you know? When you start making money, you start to spend for yourself, provide for the house. Yeah. All these things shape you. That's where I learnt how to sell, and I love sales. So that's where I thought, you know what?
Maybe I can be a salesman. Let me try that out. So I crossed the road, went into EE, the phone shop, and I asked for a job. Then they were like, yeah, cool. So within the space of two days, across the road, got a job at an E.E. phone shop. Then my manager, my old manager was like, what are you doing? I'm like, starting a new job, mate. Yeah. He hated me. I bet. Yeah, yeah, hated me. Why E.E.
and not the shoes? The shoes got boring. I've always been fascinated with technology and phones, you know. At that age, everyone wants the newest phone and I want to be the guy to sell it. And I was actually really good at it. She won a lot of awards from there. I was the best salesman in the whole country. Oh, wicked. Yeah, yeah. The whole country?
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