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Stuff You Should Know

The Middle Class: Canary in the Gold Mine?

31 Mar 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What defines the middle class and why is it important?

0.031 - 10 Unknown

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. You know Roald Dahl. He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy?

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11.322 - 16.346 Josh

In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roald Dahl, I'll tell you that story and much, much more.

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16.907 - 17.207 Unknown

What?

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17.928 - 19.389 Josh

You probably won't believe it either.

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19.409 - 23.993 Unknown

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true.

24.774 - 26.916 Chuck

I'm telling you. The guy was a spy.

27.335 - 33.666 Unknown

Listen to The Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

35.114 - 48.84 Lori Siegel

I'm Lori Siegel, and on my new podcast, Mostly Human, I'll take you to some wild corners of the tech world. I'm about to go on a date with an AI companion at a real world cafe right here in New York City.

48.86 - 54.371 Unknown

There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you.

Chapter 2: How has the perception of the middle class changed over time?

175.803 - 196.105 Josh

They start early. No, I'm not even 50 yet. They won't let me. I keep applying and they keep denying me. Okay, maybe 50. I mean, they start sending in that stuff years ahead. Yeah. We used to have one. You had to get it for work or something like that, but they found out, you know, what our age is and they got really mad. They said, we've been sending things to spring chickens.

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196.355 - 220.101 Josh

But, yeah, well, let me know how the golf thing goes and if you get cheap coffee at McDonald's and what being a senior is like, Chuck, because, you know, I think for me and Jerry and everybody, we just want to wish you a happy birthday. I appreciate that. People went bonkers on Instagram. Oh, yeah. Was that you? Yeah, of course. I figured, you know what, my uncle wished you a happy birthday.

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222.224 - 246.561 Josh

Did he? On that post, I didn't see that. Yeah, it was pretty funny. And then there was a confusing series of texts where he was finally like, is it your birthday? I was like, it was a few days ago, sure. He said, who is this? Yeah, exactly. He said, McGovern. Not McGuffin. No, McGovern. Oh, okay. All right. Let's start talking because we're talking about the middle class.

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247.216 - 277.442 Josh

And America, at least, although this definitely extends to other countries like the UK, some of the Nordic countries, Australia, there's not an obsession, but a real like... Obsession with the middle class, how it's doing, how mobile it is upwardly, downwardly. And there's essentially the middle class is like the thumbnail metric for the health, the real true health of a society and economy.

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278.215 - 299.886 Josh

Would you agree? Yeah. I mean, I think so. And I think that used to be a real like it's always been a talking point in the United States, but I think it used to be a real genuine talking point. Whereas now I think it's like, you know, are all the rich people doing great? OK. All right. Now let's talk publicly a little bit about the middle class, I guess. Right.

299.866 - 319.512 Josh

But not everybody's fallen for that. There's like this whole idea that the middle class and the health of the middle class was a canary in the coal mine. And not only is the canary dead, it caught fire at some point. As far as a lot of people are concerned about the United States middle class, at least, because there's this idea that it's dead.

319.492 - 339.002 Josh

But then if you read up a little further on it, you come across other people who are like, no, no, dude, look at these statistics. Like the middle class is actually doing great, way better than they used to be doing. And other people are like, that just doesn't quite add up. So when you get into it, it's really tough to define the middle class.

Chapter 3: What factors contributed to the rise of the middle class in the 20th century?

338.982 - 362.077 Josh

And you can monkey around with who's middle class or who's not and come up with all sorts of different profiles. But I think ultimately it just matters what people who would probably self-identify as the middle class feel about the economy and about their prospects in life. Yeah, for sure. Like, what is that, the vibe session thing? Yeah. What was her name? Kyla Scanlon.

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362.257 - 385.432 Josh

She's a kind of a Gen Z financial explanatory journalist. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the idea of like sort of like not falling for being gaslit by everything you're being told about how great it's going. And there's something called a vibe session. Am I saying that right? Yeah. Vibe session. It just sounds weird because a vibe session sounds like, you know, something I do late on Friday nights. Right.

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385.452 - 411.413 Josh

This is with a C instead of an S. Yeah, exactly. And it's much less Irie. Yeah. Oh, man. But yeah, the idea of, you know, various politicians, you know, whenever anyone's running for something, talking about typically reelection, talking about how great everything really is, whereas everyone is like, yeah, but why doesn't it feel that way? That's a vibe session instead of like a true recession.

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411.629 - 428.515 Josh

Yeah, and she was pointing out like that actually can become self-fulfilling. Yeah, sure. Because if enough people start feeling like, no, things aren't going so good, they start not spending money and that actually can trigger a recession just from the fact that people feel that way no matter what the metrics say.

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428.635 - 448.143 Josh

So we'll talk about all that, but let's talk about the history of the middle class because it hasn't always been around. Yeah, it's interesting. If you look at, you know, the history of the middle class in the West, generally you can point to late medieval Europe as, you know, when things started to get cooking a little bit as far as the middle class goes.

448.323 - 472.934 Josh

And, you know, we'll walk you all the way through, you know, modern times. But as cities became a thing, yeah. You know, all of a sudden you needed a middle class to sort of administer what the aristocracy was asking for in a lot of cases. So, you know, there was this distinct group kind of created that wasn't aristocracy and it wasn't the peasant class.

473.755 - 499.005 Josh

And I think one word and I believe we've even done a short stuff on the bourgeois. Yeah. Didn't we? Yeah. And what it means to be bourgeoisie. That's right. There's another word for them, burgers, too. And apparently both words – I don't remember this, but I'm sure we talked about it in the bourgeois short stuff. That's the name of the cities, the fortified cities where they worked, right?

499.065 - 519.057 Josh

Or where they emerged from. And burger is – that's why the Burgermeister is called that in – either Rudolph or Frosty or some Rankin-Bass. Yeah, Burgermeister, Meisterburger. Exactly. Burgermeister means mayor. So he's like the head of the city, essentially.

519.398 - 528.072 Josh

Anyway, those were the merchants, the bankers, professionals that emerged to kind of fill that space between the peasants and the aristocracy.

Chapter 4: What are the main challenges facing the middle class today?

528.372 - 546.2 Josh

And you could call them the first middle class. Yeah, sort of. But they grew in size and wealth and power. So they were kind of like, hey, we tricked everybody. We're not really the middle class. We're, I mean, maybe upper middle class. Certainly, obviously not aristocracy because they weren't born into that.

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546.32 - 566.736 Josh

But as people got wealthier, there was kind of a true middle class that came after that where you needed people to do things like bookkeeping and, you know, kind of handle the... the business of the people that previously had said that they were the middle class, even though no one was using those terms, you know, we should point out. Right, no, nothing like that.

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567.157 - 592.245 Josh

There was also a lot of changes where before it was wealth and power, right? Because that's what nobility kind of based itself on. So the earliest middle class kind of based itself on those same markers. But thanks to the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, other markers kind of came along. The whole idea of thrift, of saving your money, of not being...

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592.225 - 614.284 Josh

just frivolous with your money, that became a really big middle-class social marker. Certain tastes, certain ways you would dress. And then, of course, wealth. Wealth has always been a marker for the middle class, especially the upper middle class. But these were all like, all these things seem so...

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614.264 - 634.043 Josh

Normal to us and so ingrained that it seems alien almost to kind of tease this stuff out and identify it historically. Yeah, for sure. And this was, you know, in Europe at the time when the United States was born. Libya, by the way, did a great job with this article, I thought. Agreed. She is a heck of a writer.

634.063 - 652.438 Josh

So the United States was, you know, as she points out, kind of a sort of a bourgeois, not a I wanted to say project or a test. It was an experiment, maybe the American experiment. Yeah, because there were people like Thomas Jefferson who were very much believe like.

652.418 - 675.307 Josh

hey, we're going to build this new country on, and not on the backs of, but like the middle class, these people that own farms and could provide for their family and that own some land, like this is the American experiment that like the goal that we're striving toward. Yeah, and those Yaman farmers were typically not slaveholding.

675.327 - 698.473 Josh

So his idea was to basically become a nation of self-sufficient farmers growing food for their families and themselves and then selling some in the market. And that just is not how it went because the wealthy landowners who had actually had slaves became essentially the power, the elite, the people actually pulling the levers.

698.453 - 720.279 Josh

And eventually they, except in the antebellum South, they kind of replaced that wealthy landowning and agriculture with industry as the Industrial Revolution started in Europe and then spread to the U.S. And then we had a real disparity in power and wealth growing. Yeah, for sure.

Chapter 5: How does income inequality affect the middle class?

803.382 - 822.763 Josh

And that's where the middle class really started to emerge in the United States in particular, but also in like the UK, Australia, some of the other places in the West. That's where the middle classes, we understand it now, really developed. Yeah, for sure. And it was there during the time of Marx, but that wasn't good for Marxism to point that out.

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822.944 - 831.033 Josh

So it was very much easier for him to say, like, you're being exploited or you're the exploiter. It is a little black and white. Yeah, for sure.

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832.274 - 858.75 Josh

So in the 19th century, the middle class values system started to kind of take shape, which is, you know, sort of the value system that ideally is still around today, which is the idea that, you know, if you work hard, you save up, you can be a success in the United States. You know, they agreed that people should... vote more and more, like have access to voting.

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858.79 - 880.588 Josh

And of course, that started with like, hey, maybe men that aren't land owners should be able to vote. And then that kind of spread throughout the years to, you know, people of different races and then women finally. And but the idea that expanding voting rights and expanding education was always sort of a middle class value. And then early on, it was

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880.568 - 896.113 Josh

You know, the role of women in society has definitely changed as far as the middle class value goes. But early on, it was, hey, women are very important to keep the home, but really be the moral center of of the world of the home, you know.

896.515 - 916.494 Josh

Yeah, of the family, which was of utmost importance, the nuclear family, which became really important in the Victorian era and really informed the middle class values too, right? And all of those seem like, so we take them for granted so much as values typically, aside from, you know, forcing women to work in the home, whether they like it or not.

916.994 - 937.198 Josh

That just goes to show you how effective the middle class was at spreading its, basically imposing its values on everybody else in the West. Yeah, for sure. Should we take an early break here? Well, it's not too early, actually. I think so. Yeah, let's. All right, we'll take a break. I think that's a good setup. Middle class is forming. Everyone's getting excited.

937.819 - 969.44 Unknown

And we'll flash forward to the 20th century right after this. You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roald Dahl, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life.

970.341 - 976.79 Josh

His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.

Chapter 6: What role do unions play in the health of the middle class?

1022.744 - 1023.745 Chuck

And it's very empowering.

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1024.186 - 1030.936 Lori Siegel

Each week, I'll speak to the people building that future. And we're going to break down what all of this innovation actually means for you.

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1032.258 - 1039.129 Josh

What I come to realize is that when people think that they're dating this AI companion, they're actually dating the companies that create this.

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1039.21 - 1043.055 Lori Siegel

We're experiencing one of the greatest tech accelerations in human history.

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1043.596 - 1052.289 Unknown

And let's be honest, that can be messy. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you.

1052.689 - 1062.383 Lori Siegel

But it's my belief that we should all benefit from this moment. Mostly Human will show you how. My goal is to give you the playbook so you can benefit.

1062.548 - 1069.925 Unknown

The reason I say agency is because if we can give power back to people, then I think that's probably the best thing we can do for your mental health.

1070.727 - 1076.119 Lori Siegel

Listen to Mostly Human on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1083.473 - 1088.785 Unknown

A silver .40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene.

Chapter 7: How do social safety nets impact the middle class?

1262.504 - 1285.74 Josh

And that means that life is a lot more fair for you, the worker, because you're allowed to get together and say, no, you can't do that to any of us. If you do that to one of us, you do it to all of us and we'll all leave. Yes. I mean, we did a great episode on unions years ago. So I advise you to go listen to that now if you want to learn more about those. Me? No, no, no. Everyone else.

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1285.76 - 1286.662 Josh

I mean, you can if you want.

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1287.182 - 1287.703 Unknown

Okay.

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1287.723 - 1306.716 Josh

A little refresher. But union membership really bloomed in the 1930s and 40s. I think at the beginning of the 20th century, it was in the low teens union membership. And then it really, really rose from there. And so did wages. Between 1940 and 1960, if you were a non-farmer,

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1306.696 - 1331.988 Josh

your median weekly income rose, and these, by the way, everything we're doing is in 20, $25, just to make it easier to understand. Right. But your median weekly income for a non-farmer went from $550 to over a thousand dollars, almost 1100 bucks. And that was across a lot of education levels, different racial groups, different industries. That was sort of a broad change.

1333.311 - 1356.338 Josh

So it was an interesting time in that pay for people in what is now like a solid middle class was really rising. They were taxing the rich and constraining corporate power such that some people called this time the Great Compression, where the wealth levels were sort of smashed together on a graph instead of expanded vastly like we are now.

1356.358 - 1380.342 Josh

We're going to have some shocking numbers for you later in this episode. Yeah, so that era between 1940 and I think a lot of people essentially put it at the mid-70s is when they say the party really started to end, was just this economic boom golden age for the United States and the middle class. And there was another big factor, too, which was home ownership.

1380.322 - 1404.586 Josh

I remember in our racial discrimination or housing discrimination episode that we did, we pointed out that owning a home has long been really important, especially for the middle class, because that is how you generate wealth for most people. Your home just appreciates some value over the years. And then you can also use that home to transfer that wealth to your kids.

1404.887 - 1424.288 Josh

So it's also a form of generational wealth transfer for the middle class. So it's a really big deal to own your own home. And that was another big thing that happened after World War II. Home ownership went up quite a bit. Yeah. Previous and this is going way back, but between 1890 and 1930, home ownership was under 50 percent in the United States.

Chapter 8: What can be done to support the middle class moving forward?

1496.311 - 1517.78 Josh

One salary could do all of that. Yeah, and it was, you know, people weren't as far apart as they were financially speaking. Like you may live in the same neighborhood or maybe the neighborhood next to your boss. You know, blue-collar workers and white-collar workers were – were way more, you know, just kind of squashed together. Like, your children probably went to school.

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1519.242 - 1538.629 Josh

If you were, like, a line worker at an auto plant, you know, you may not have as nice of a car or as big of a house as your manager or your boss. But, you know, it was in the same world. And, you know, I still remember that stuff growing up in the 80s. Like, you watch any John Hughes movie and –

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1538.609 - 1551.61 Josh

Like all the kids at the same school, they were like, you know, the rich kids and then the kids that lived in that neighborhood. Right. But it wasn't extreme wealth and poverty. No. And the fact is they were all going to the same school.

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1551.75 - 1552.05 Chuck

Exactly.

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1552.07 - 1564.931 Josh

There was like a leveling from that. So, yeah, that was a really big deal. And this is this is going on through about to the mid 70s when things started to decline for the middle class.

1565.091 - 1565.351 Unknown

Right.

1565.431 - 1565.712 Josh

Yeah.

1566.373 - 1566.473

Yeah.

1566.453 - 1586.149 Josh

There was the end of the post-war boom. I mean, that's really tough to keep up in the form that it was in for very long. And it's kind of astounding it stayed up that long. Part of it was that the U.S. was in that unique position, like you said. It didn't have to rebuild after World War II like Europe and Japan did.

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