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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here, too. We're pretty sure. And this is Stuff You Should Know. That's right. 80s history, New York City history edition. Yeah. Oh, it's definitely, I mean, not just like New York City history.
Chapter 2: Who is Bernard Goetz and why is he significant?
This is one of the pivotal moments in the history of New York.
Yeah, that's right. Because everyone, we are talking about somebody. who, as far as pop culture goes, was on the cover of Time magazine, somebody who has been in pop songs by Billy Joel, of course, Lou Reed, none other than the Beastie Boys, has been a Trivial Pursuit answer, has been a question on Jeopardy, has been mentioned in an episode of Seinfeld even.
And, of course, who are we talking about, Josh?
Wow. Well, hold on. I can top your Time magazine. He was also in Mad magazine.
Okay, also in Mad Magazine. So this must have been some entertainer or some revered cultural icon, yeah?
Sure, in a roundabout way, but not really. I think you're being coy or fey.
That's right. We're talking about Bernard Goetz, the subway vigilante who shot four teenagers on a subway train in New York City in 1984 when I was 13 years old. I remember this very vividly. It was a very big deal.
Yeah. And we should probably come out and say these were unarmed teenagers, too. And then I saw. So there's a book called Five Bullets by a legal correspondent named Elliot Goetz. Ness? Smith? Actually, it's Elliot Smith hyphen Ness. Good guess.
Easton?
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Chapter 3: What events led to the subway shooting incident in 1984?
Yeah, I think you said it best about just being alert because like, I think sometimes this period of New York gets painted as like, if you walk outside of your apartment, there's a 50-50 chance you're going to get mugged or murdered. Right. And when you look at the stats, it's shocking today to hear about like,
38 literal crimes on the subway every single day because it's just not like that now but when you talk about how many you know tens of thousands of people ride the subway it's still a low number but it was high enough and everyone knew someone who knew someone who had had this happen if it hadn't happened to them that like yeah it was it was a different time but we just don't want to paint it as like you know the the wild west because it wasn't like that exactly
No. But when when the news of the subway vigilante came out, one of the things that really shaped the public opinion, too, and made it easier for people to be like, heck, yeah, good for that guy. I love him. I think Joan Rivers sent him a telegram that said loving kisses and offered to help him with his bail money. People had T-shirts. Did you see that T-shirt I sent you that's available on eBay?
Yeah.
Oh, I thought you sent it in the mail. Do you think you can buy me that?
It said Thugbusters, and it said Bernard Goetz has, I think, a gun or something. No, it had a bad guy with a circle and a slash through it, like Ghostbusters, I guess.
Yeah, I mean, that was, you know, that was the public sentiment. And it also had to do with the way initially the press was being fed to them about this, because all the information coming out was, you know, hey, these guys had screwdrivers in their pockets. They were trying to mug him.
They didn't focus on sort of the shooting aspect, like that he had hollow point bullets, which are, of course, even deadlier. I guess non hollow bullets. What are those called?
regular bullets regular bullets yeah sure talking to newbies here with that stuff didn't talk about shooting them in the back initially in the press they talked you know they talked to Canty's brother and he was like yeah my brother freebases cocaine and he was high that day on the subway so like all the stuff coming out on the news you know supported like a more benevolent view of Bernard Getz at first at least
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Chapter 4: How did Bernard Goetz's past experiences influence his actions?
So eventually he was indicted. It kind of took a meandering road to finally arrive there. But he was eventually charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless endangerment and a slew of firearms charges. But at the end of January 85 was the first go around with a grand jury. They did not indict him except for illegal weapons possession. Apparently there was a D.A.
at the time that was up for reelection. Bernard Goetz was very popular, so he didn't want to try too hard to bring serious charges. So he didn't call victims to testify or anything like that. As the details start leaking out and these quotes start coming out, the DA is kind of cornered to like, I have to really do this.
So they convened a new grand jury in March of that year and made the case for murder, assault, all the charges he was eventually charged with and brought in At least Canty and Ram's sure to testify along with eyewitnesses this time.
Yeah. So the grand jury indicted him, I think, on 13 counts total. And very shortly after that, all 13 counts got thrown out. The whole case got thrown out because the defense made a successful case that the, I think the prosecutor had, the DA had given poor instructions to the grand jury and that Ramseur and Canty had perjured themselves. Right. And
So it looked like he was going to get off again. And then I think a few months later, an appeals court said, no, get back in there. Let's actually do this thing. So by the summer of 1986, it looked like he was going to definitely be tried in a serious manner for some very serious charges.
Yeah, for sure. He obviously pleaded not guilty. He claimed self-defense. And I guess we should go into a little more detail about what happened on the train. You know, I mentioned these guys, all four got on. They were being rude. They were being inconsiderate. You know, again, if you've been to New York City and ridden the subway, you've probably seen behavior kind of like this at some point.
It makes everyone very uncomfortable, but you never know if it's like, These days, you're probably like, it's not a real threat. Let's just kind of ignore it. Back then, it probably seemed much more like a real threat. Apparently, Troy Canty went up to Getz directly and said, in his best Joey Tribbiani, how you doing?
Asked him a couple more questions, just like, you know, just kind of messing with him, small talk stuff. Getz kind of answered briefly. And Getz is, you know, obviously getting kind of worked up at this point. This is a guy who had had enough. Barry Allen and Troy Canty approached him. And that is when the sort of controversial line of give me five bucks or can I get five bucks happened.
Either way, give me five bucks doesn't sound like a mugging. Like, give me all your your money, sucker. That sounds like a mugging to me.
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Chapter 5: What was the public reaction to the subway vigilante shooting?
Yeah. I got a quote from, I mean, I read a New York Times article from January of this year.
Yeah.
Because I think there's a couple of books that came out this year. Yeah. And he said, you know, the important thing is, is that I shot the right guys and no innocent bystanders were hurt.
Yeah, one of those books was Five Bullets, and the author's name is Elliot Williams. That's right. So, yeah, I think the jury found in favor of Daryl Kaby and said that Goetz owed him $43 million. And Goetz, like you said, I guess he knew that he was never going to pay it. He immediately filed bankruptcy. And still to this day, Daryl Kaby's never seen a penny of that money.
Yeah. Gets, you know, again, it's in that same apartment still. I guess he's got a pretty sweet rent control situation would be my guess.
Sounds like it.
But he ran for mayor in New York in 2001, pushing. He's a vegetarian, pushing vegetarian menus. Apparently he works in squirrel rescue and rehabilitation.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
And also still runs his electronics business out of his apartment. And he then ran in 2005 for a public advocate on the platform against circumcision and in favor of power naps for New York City workers.
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