Chapter 1: Who is Mariane Ibrahim and what is her mission?
Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, wherever you are in the world. I am Robert Diamond and this is Talk Art. Welcome to Talk Art. Today, I am feeling like a storyteller. Now, today's guest is not actually an artist herself. She did once try to sort of develop a photography practice, I believe, and did sort of pursue artistic interests.
But in the end, she ended up being an incredible storyteller herself, but through the gallery that she set up, which has now expanded all over the world. She has three locations currently, one in Mexico City, which I just had the great honor of being in Mexico City and actually seeing our guests gallery booth at Zona Maco Art Fair.
And it really was the standout booth of the whole fair, in my opinion. And I spent quite a while just walking around and discovering a number of artists that I'd never heard of before. And I was just blown away by the criticality, but also just the taste. I just felt like today's guest has the most impeccable taste. also just a really great sort of curatorial aesthetic.
And it made me realize that every time I'm at an art fair, whether it be Art Basel or different art fairs around the world, often I will see her booths and I'm always really inspired. So I thought, why not invite her on the show? You know, because I'm also a gallerist and print publisher.
And I thought it was an interesting perspective to hear from somebody else in the industry who has their own business and
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Chapter 2: What inspired Mariane Ibrahim to become a gallerist?
She also has a gallery in Paris and a significant gallery as well in Chicago, which is a really interesting sort of mix of cities. And I'm really excited to explore her art world and the artists that she's brought to the forefront over the last kind of decade. So I would like to welcome to TalkArt, Marianne Ibrahim.
Thank you so much. I'm very touched by your introduction and the admiration is mutual. So thank you for having me.
So I've been following you for a long time because quite a few of your artists are either artists that Russell Tovey and myself might have spoken to. I know we've known Youssef Nabil, for example, who's an amazing photographer and he even like paints on photos. And I think Russell actually had his portrait taken by Youssef maybe in like 2006 or something or 2005, like a long, long time ago.
And I used to hang out with Youssef in New York back then, like just before I met Russell actually. So that was one of the first things that like bonded our friendship. And more recently, we've interviewed like Ava Jospan and Amoako Boafo. And I'm such a big fan also of Salah Elmore, the amazing painter that I just saw in Zona Mako.
And yeah, I really respect everything that you've been building and doing. How did your interest in being a gallerist begin?
I've always been impressed by the gallery world. I mean, that aspect of the gallery seemed, you know, a very opaque environment and an unaccessible, you know, sort of a space. I didn't grow up in really big cities. I grew up in Bordeaux, and this is where you kind of have a little bit of, you know, that artistic formation, you know, but there's not much of a scene.
So sadly, there's not a school or a particular training that prepares you for that. And I think it came from a little bit of a frustration. As I was hanging out with a lot of artists in my early 20s, I could see how they were struggling with getting a gallery, you know.
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Chapter 3: How does Mariane Ibrahim define the role of her gallery?
And I have always admired the work of the artists. But then I realized that they sort of were very much impressed by that status of the gallery. And every single time that I would hang along, they would see, you know, oh, here she comes, oh, here he comes.
And I think that sort of power and sort of authority was something that really, you know, excited me, you know, in a way, not to be, you know, an authoritarian person, you know, but it was more like, okay, that is a status, you know, this is something very respectable. to do in terms of the art world.
So I think there was a little bit of that and a little bit of, you know, sort of a nurturing maternal instinct in sort of protecting the artists and sort of guiding through and helping them. So it came from both sort of places. I guess the part where I wanted to play a role was because the artists that I was mostly interested in were not being shown.
And I refused to believe that there were no artists. I just believed that there was no market, you know, and that needed to be created. I was trained, actually, in the UK in the marketing and communication field. And that aspect of selling, promoting, telling a story of any product was something that I was... you know, I tend to say I'm still good at.
And so when in the marketing world, somebody tells you this does not exist, then it's an opportunity. It's a market that you create.
Yeah, exactly. And in 2012, you actually opened your initial gallery, which was under a different title. It was called MIA. And it was in Seattle at the time. And the unique angle in a way for your program, for your introduction of your gallery was underrepresented regions. And
particularly Africa and the Middle East and really focusing on African kind of diaspora artists or African artists, which like you're saying at the time really weren't getting seen or shown. But you yourself had this kind of amazing way of storytelling.
I heard that, you know, alongside marketing and your kind of business studies in a way, you were a really great communicator and that you came from a family of great women communicators and that that in itself is a strength.
Yeah, we're storytellers. We love to tell stories. I grew up in Somalia from the part of the north. There's nothing very much to entertain you. There's no TV, you know, there's not a sort of a cinema and you just sit around with your grandmother and your family and then they tell you a lot of stories. So yeah, so I've always been chatty. I've always had that problem at school.
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Chapter 4: What challenges did Mariane face in establishing her gallery in Seattle?
I just felt that I had to take the torsion and save the art of the marginalized, underrepresented. So I was very idealistic then.
I know, but I love that. I think it's such an interesting thing. Yeah, you were like really fighting for your friends, for the artists that you admired. And I know that your full name is Marianne Ibrahim Abdi, but it was actually missing in art. So it wasn't missing in action.
It was missing in art because you felt so like, why are all these amazing talents not getting seen and also not reaching collectors? I think it's really like patronizing and kind of condescending at the idea that the collectors themselves wouldn't be interested. It's like if people can't see these artworks, how are they going to discover them?
And I think it's so important, the gallery that you started then in Seattle. And what was the artist community like in Seattle at the time?
Yeah, it was very confidential. It was very small. And yet you kind of look at Seattle as being a very powerful, you know, sort of a city. Look at the tech, Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing. They're all there. And there's a concentration of wealth there. and important figures, but they were a little bit older. They were not more of the contemporaries.
The tech cities are always a strange space, you know, because I think there is a part of them that really feel and think that they are creatives. I think the tech people often associate themselves to be creatives. And therefore, the part of the art doesn't really come in the same way as an art enthusiastic. You know, it's almost like there might be even competition, you know.
So it wasn't really a fertile environment at every level in terms of, you know, the people curiosity. I was often alone in the space. And what is really ironic is that I haven't changed much of the program. You know, I just changed the location. Yeah, I was such an enigma in that sort of a space. People really didn't understand why I'm bringing this topic.
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Chapter 5: How has Mariane's gallery evolved over the years?
And then the level of representation that I'm part of, being a woman of color, being a black gallerist, was also something that really disturbed them a little bit, you know?
Right, right.
And then Seattle is not the most diverse city. So where are my community was really a bit of an isolation. But you know what this has done to me for seven years? I was able to observe, observe the world. I was able to see what was going on. I was able to take more risk. I was able to experiment and sort of create the team that I wanted to work with in the next decade.
And I am so, so grateful for the artists who have been really It's crazy to have trusted a gallery in Seattle, to have come all the way to Seattle and do shows. I'm so grateful for them for believing in me, you know, because once you send those invitations to the artists, it's not New York, it's not Los Angeles. So what can possibly come out of Seattle, especially if there's not a market?
So I have so much gratitude and I realize how they also sort of a transgress and also accepted this invitation. I don't think that they didn't have any other invitation, but I think there was a part of alignment with the program. So Seattle, yeah, I haven't returned back. I have like an interesting relationship now with Seattle. I felt so misunderstood and felt so cast away.
You know, a few times I tell the joke that I've experienced COVID for seven years, you know, you know, social distancing and not seeing people in the the gallery so it was a really a territory where business was not very much easy to do on the site but it kicked you to go to the world so this is where i started to do a lot of art face from from seattle
It's also really interesting just thinking of the space that you had in those seven years, like the freedom in many ways. And I think the artists themselves probably, you know, felt that as an opportunity too, because it's not the pressure of a New York audience or an LA audience or a London audience. It's
kind of a place that you can put on, you know, artistic shows that actually like have something to say and aren't necessarily about just the commerce, if you see what I mean. Because I know your opening show was like photography. You ended up representing artists with all different mediums as well. Like you worked with textile artists, painters,
You were never shy about experimenting in terms of your program. I feel like your program was incredibly diverse, not just because of the underrepresented artists in terms of the regions they're from or their background, but even in the mediums that you were experimenting in exhibitions.
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Chapter 6: What is the significance of Mariane's gallery locations in Paris, Chicago, and Mexico City?
And so for me, it was showtime. It was the time where you have to bring forward your best presentation, your best fashion, your best thing, you know. And I took a great, great pleasure in doing so as even if there wasn't any prize, I wanted to be the best one and the best five. And I was able to get it for a few years and to have something very immersive and relevant for the artist.
And with Zora Opoku, actually before that fair, before the Omri show, the previous one, which I am extremely proud of, I consider it to be my best presentation so far, was at the Seattle Art Fair. I commissioned an artist to recover the entire... booth with a black vinyl. You couldn't see any work. Everything was recovered.
And I think that when some fairs have seen that presentation, they're like, okay, this one is a bit crazy. Why don't we bring her over? And I think the invitation from the armory came from there.
So all the artworks were hidden?
Yes. I mean, the artist, Claire Pinovent, is an artist who used, you know, this sort of a vinyl. And it was like an eruption of a volcano. All of the works, it was like sort of drops. It was like sort of a going down and everything was recovered and no one could see any of the work. And I even recovered the entire table, the chair and everything. And I left the booth.
I went to the VIP to have oysters. That's it. That's where I spent most of the time because there was a moment where I expressed some sort of a tiredness of not embracing these categories of artists. I was a bit, you know, I wouldn't say upset, but I was like, OK, I'm going to even stress more that invisibility. And I'm not going to show any. I'm going to do the fair to not show any works.
Thinking back, I think it would be, in terms of what is going on today with the politics and the self-censorship, I think this booth would have been much more relevant today than it was 10 years ago. But it concerned a particular subject rather than what is happening right now. But that was the result that got me into the Armory show.
And I remember exchanging with the artist and I was like, Zora, there's a price. We need to get the price. And she's like, yeah, but what about the work? We're fine. It's okay if we don't sell, but we need to win the price. We absolutely need to win the price. And I think there was a manifestation and hard work that we put into place and we really, really wanted to win the price. And we won.
And I was very reassured. I wouldn't say validated, but I was happy about it. I was content about it because that was going to open other possibilities and doors to reciprocate and to keep pushing and inviting artists to come with me in terms of creating a memorable display.
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Chapter 7: How does Mariane Ibrahim support underrepresented artists?
Yeah, it's also a very poetic and classy kind of protest, you know, within a very corporate environment.
I'm not a very loud person. I don't go out there on the social media and scream. I scream in different ways, you know. I love that. And I like that sort of a silence, self-censored approach. But in that moment of the art fair, mostly the Armory Fair, which was my fair by excellence, it was a place that I'd love to come back to, I did five consecutive presentations of Black women artists.
What was very natural to me then doesn't seem now, you know, because I was advocating for that sort of a visibility and acknowledgement of the contribution of Black women artists in the art world. And yet they're still not in the same sort of status as other groups and genders. And so for me, it was very much into pushing myself as well. And through them, I'm also, you know, expressing
the status and the monopoly of a certain group of galleries. It's very rare that the mission and the ambition of the artist is far from mine. It's very fusional. And I am often using the voice of the artist to push my voice and vice versa, you know?
I also was thinking about your move to Mexico City and how interesting it is, the locations that you chose, because you have three locations currently for the gallery, Paris, Mexico City and Chicago. And I was thinking a lot about the difference culturally in Mexico City, because it's a very...
unique location completely different to Europe and completely different to America especially in terms of being a person of African descent and of kind of African communities that live in Mexico City and I was really interested to explore that with you and also to think about the kind of collector base when it's like collectors who are of African descent themselves and how that has grown in Mexico City as one specific location for your gallery.
I've always been fascinated by Mexico, Mexican culture, without having been there. I felt like there was something there for me. I don't know. I felt like I belonged in that sort of a space. And being in Seattle also was a factor of me going there because I needed to get out of the U.S. And the closest place that I felt completely immersed in a different culture was Mexico.
So after seeing the architecture and seeing the city, the vibrancy of the city, that's sort of a moment where I was like, I would very much love to have an art space here. I think I was charmed by the diversity in terms of architecture and the spaces throughout different times and eras. So Mexico came last, even though it should have been first.
Yeah.
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Chapter 8: What insights does Mariane offer about the future of art and galleries?
And it gives me also a lot of flexibility. We do three exhibitions a year, which is different, which is something that I would like to do in other spaces. They have the slow fashion. I would like to do slow shows, you know. That's the dream. In Mexico, we've done exhibition that was centered around the arts from Afro-Brazilian artists, exhibition with the young French painters.
Clotilde Jimenez was the first exhibition because it's also based there. We've done a show, Salad More, we've done a show at Amorco. And each time the reception is just amazing. And it's a window. It's really a window for the Mexican to be able to connect with other parts of the world. And I don't think that it is sort of our place to be presenting necessarily Mexican artists in Mexico.
So it's more like cultural diplomacy going on in the space where we bring the world. And we've had an amazing exhibition, the first exhibition with Eva Jospin. The Mexican audience, we're very much connected because if you look at her environment, it's very Baroque. And when you go in certain parts of the city in Mexico, you have that sort of a 40s and architectural ornaments.
And so there is a connection. I see connection when we present this sort of artist.
Yeah, like international artists. It was interesting as well because Ava had never been to Mexico City before she did her show with you. And your invitation was like this kind of exciting thing for her because she had no idea. I heard, you know, what to expect. And even the idea of all the trees and the roots breaking through concrete, it's always the most magical thing for me.
I just love the way that you can't contain yourself the energy, because also the fact of the high altitude there and the fact it was kind of built on, you know, water and all of those ancient civilizations. And, you know, I went to the Anthropology Museum when we were there. We had a guide who just was amazing. She was like, maybe like 75 years old.
And she took us around and spoke about all these different histories within Mexico City, even just as a location in itself. And I thought that was so interesting when thinking about Ava's installations and work.
Yeah, absolutely. And I was telling her, it's like your work, if you see it, you know, you basically are creating that sort of architectural environment. And she was enamored and loved the center, but also, as you mentioned, like all of these trees coming out and the roots. And also, let's not forget, you know, one part that really attracts me to the place, of course, it's antiquities.
You're walking into a very living, you know, sort of a soil. anything can happen. And sort of that relationship to life, that relationship to death that Mexicans have, and that relationship to time was also something I'm sensitive and sort of enjoy it. But yeah, there is something about Mexico City and in general, the Mexican people, their soul, their spirituality, and there is also
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