Matt Paige interviews Vishnu Hari (Vish), CEO and founder of Ego (YC W24), about shifting focus from AGI to “humanness”: AI characters that behave like people through memory, emotions, personality, needs, and desires.Referencing Ego’s paper “Behavior is All You Need,” Vish argues consumer AI for entertainment must be relatable and character-like rather than purely task-smart, drawing inspiration from MMORPG social dynamics and Character.AI’s appeal.Ego initially pursued a 3D sim-world vision inspired by Sword Art Online and Westworld, but found accessibility, game development, and perception latency challenging; internal Roblox tests (“Chatterblocks”) showed the key gap is natural speech beyond turn-taking.Vish discusses simulations as a path toward real-world robotics via a partnership with Menlo AI, critiques task-bound robots versus agents with inner lives, suggests retention as the main metric, and shares views on AGI definitions, safety in entertainment, technology impacts, simulation theory, and consciousness.Ego’s work is at egoai.com and the company is hiring in SF, Singapore, and Tokyo.--Key Moments:00:57 Behavior Is All You Need02:41 Anatomy of Humanlike Agents03:29 Game Bots to Real People05:10 Building Ego and Sim Worlds06:35 Why Speech Feels Human08:27 From Sims to Robotics10:29 Her vs Helper Robots13:17 Measuring Humanness by Retention15:27 Continual Learning and Personality16:57 Meta Lessons on Empty Worlds18:08 Lightning Round on AGI20:31 IP Characters vs UGC Worlds21:55 Risks and Just Tuesday24:11 Simulation and Consciousness--Key Links:EgoConnect with Rowan on LinkedInMentioned in this episode:Free report from HatchWorks AI — State of AI 2026What’s real in AI this year, what’s hype, and what leaders should prioritize — including production lessons, designing for agents, and governance. https://hatchworks.com/state-of-ai-2026/AI Opportunity FinderFeeling overwhelmed by all the AI noise out there? The AI Opportunity Finder from HatchWorks cuts through the hype and gives you a clear starting point. In less than 5 minutes, you’ll get tailored, high-impact AI use cases specific to your business—scored by ROI so you know exactly where to start. Whether you're looking to cut costs, automate tasks, or grow faster, this free tool gives you a personalized roadmap built for action. 👉 Try it now at https://hatchworks.com/ai-opportunity-finder/

Ask this episode

“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.