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TED Talks Daily

Go ahead, dream about the future | Charlie Jane Anders (re-release)

26 Jul 2025

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

7.135 - 31.152 Elise Hu

You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu. You don't predict the future. You imagine the future, says sci-fi writer Charlie Jane Anders. In this archive talk that's part dream, part research-based extrapolation, she takes us on a wild, speculative tour of the delights and challenges the future may hold.

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31.132 - 37.598 Elise Hu

and shows us how dreaming up weird futuristic possibilities empowers us to construct a better tomorrow.

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42.893 - 61.965 Unknown

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67.244 - 86.215 Charlie Jane Anders

Every science fiction writer has a story about a time when the future arrived too soon. I have a lot of those stories. Like, OK, for example, years ago, I was writing a story where the government starts using drones to kill people.

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Chapter 2: What does Charlie Jane Anders mean by imagining the future?

86.887 - 113.991 Charlie Jane Anders

I thought that this was a really intense, futuristic idea, but by the time the story was published, the government was already using drones to kill people. Our world is changing so fast, and there's a kind of accelerating feedback loop where technological change and social change feed on each other. When I was a kid in the 1980s, we knew what the future was going to look like.

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114.359 - 137.641 Charlie Jane Anders

It was going to be some version of Judge Dredd or Blade Runner. It was going to be neon megacities and flying vehicles. But now nobody knows what the world is going to look like, even in just a couple of years. And there's so many scary apparitions lurking on the horizon, from climate catastrophe to authoritarianism.

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138.042 - 161.702 Charlie Jane Anders

Everybody is obsessed with apocalypses, even though the world ends all the time and we keep going. don't be afraid to think about the future, to dream about the future, to write about the future. I found it really liberating and fun to do that. It's a way of vaccinating yourself against the worst possible case of future shock.

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162.603 - 177.327 Charlie Jane Anders

It's also a source of empowerment, because you cannot prepare for something that you haven't already visualized. But there's something that you need to know. You don't predict the future. You imagine the future.

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177.347 - 195.88 Charlie Jane Anders

So as a science fiction writer, whose stories often take place years or even centuries from now, I found that people are really hungry for visions of the future that are both colorful and lived in, But I found that research on its own is not enough to get me there.

195.9 - 223.168 Charlie Jane Anders

Instead, I use a mixture of active dreaming and awareness of cutting-edge trends in science and technology, and also an insight into human history. I think a lot about what I know of human nature and the way that people have responded in the past to huge changes and upheavals and transformations. And I pair that with an attention to detail, because the details are where we live.

223.97 - 247.751 Charlie Jane Anders

We tell the story of our world through the tools we create and the spaces that we live in. And at this point, it's helpful to know a couple of terms that science fiction writers use all of the time. Future history and second-order effects. A future history is basically just what it sounds like. It is a chronology of things that haven't happened yet.

248.232 - 268.735 Charlie Jane Anders

Like Robert A. Heinlein's famous story cycle, which came with a detailed chart of upcoming events going up into the year 2100. Or for my most recent novel, I came up with a really complicated timeline that goes all the way to the 33rd century and ends with people living on another planet.

268.715 - 293.355 Charlie Jane Anders

Meanwhile, a second-order effect is basically the kind of thing that happens after the consequences of a new technology or a huge change. There's a saying often attributed to writer and editor Frederick Pohl that a good science fiction story should predict not just the invention of the automobile, but also the traffic jam.

Chapter 3: How does technology influence our perception of the future?

434.983 - 455.993 Charlie Jane Anders

Like, if the walls of your apartment are made out of a kind of fungus that can regrow itself to repair any damage, What if people start eating the walls? Speaking of eating, what kind of sewer system does the city of the future have? It's a trick question. There are no sewers.

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456.333 - 471.589 Charlie Jane Anders

There's something incredibly bizarre about the current system we have in the United States, where your waste gets flushed into a tunnel to be mixed with rainwater and often dumped into the ocean. Not to mention toilet paper.

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472.548 - 489.882 Charlie Jane Anders

A bunch of techies led by Bill Gates are trying to reinvent the toilet right now, and it's possible that the toilet of the future could appear incredibly strange to someone living today. So how does the history of the future, all of that trial and error, lead to a better way to go to the bathroom?

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489.862 - 503.638 Charlie Jane Anders

There are companies right now who are experimenting with a kind of cleaning wand that can substitute for toilet paper using compressed air or sanitizing sprays to clean you off, but what if those things looked more like flowers than technology?

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Chapter 4: What stories illustrate the concept of the future arriving too soon?

505.32 - 525.626 Charlie Jane Anders

What if your toilet could analyze your waste and let you know if your microbiome might need a little tune-up? What if today's experiments with turning human waste into fuel leads to a smart battery that could help power your home? But back to the city of the future. How do people navigate the space? If there's no streets, how do people even make sense of the geography?

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525.666 - 544.778 Charlie Jane Anders

I like to think of a place where there are spaces that are partially only in virtual reality that maybe you need special hardware to even discover. Like, for one story, I came up with a thing called the Cloudscape interface, which I described as a Chrome spider. that plugs into your head using temporal nodes.

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544.798 - 564.464 Charlie Jane Anders

And I got really carried away imagining the bars, restaurants, cafes that you could only find your way inside if you had the correct augmented reality hardware. But again, second-order effects. In a world shaped by augmented reality, what kind of new communities will we have? What kind of new crimes that we haven't even thought of yet?

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565.145 - 587.524 Charlie Jane Anders

OK, let's say that you and I are standing next to each other, and you think that we're in a noisy sports bar, and I think we're in a highbrow salon with a string quartet talking about Baudrillard. I can't possibly imagine what might go wrong in that scenario. I'm sure it'll be fine. And then there's social media.

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587.904 - 605.863 Charlie Jane Anders

I can imagine some pretty frickin' dystopian scenarios where things like internet quizzes, dating apps, horoscopes, bots, all combine to drag you down deeper and deeper rabbit holes into bad relationships and worse politics.

605.843 - 631.986 Charlie Jane Anders

But then I think about the conversations that I've had with people who work on AI, and what I always hear from them is that the smarter AI gets, the better it is at making connections. So maybe the social media of the future will be better. Maybe it'll help us to form healthier, less destructive relationships. Maybe we'll have devices that enable togetherness and serendipity. I really hope so.

631.966 - 646.988 Charlie Jane Anders

And you know, I like to think that if strong AI ever really exists, they'll probably enjoy our weird relationship drama the same way that you and I love to obsess about the real housewives of wherever. And finally,

646.968 - 665.372 Charlie Jane Anders

I mean, I think a lot about how developments in genetic medicine could improve outcomes for people with cancer or dementia, and maybe one day your 100th birthday will be just another milestone on the way to another two or three decades of healthy, active life.

665.432 - 675.405 Charlie Jane Anders

Maybe the toilet of the future that I mentioned will improve health outcomes for a lot of people, including people in parts of the world where they don't have these complicated sewer systems that I mentioned.

Chapter 5: How can dreaming about the future empower us?

860.462 - 863.967 Unknown

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