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Chapter 1: What is the controversy surrounding women in leadership roles in shuls?
One of the, I guess, a hot-button topic a little bit that someone asked that we speak about, this was a major controversy in a shul in Syracuse, I think it was recently, is the role of women in leadership positions such as shul president, member of the board of directors of a shul, or I guess technically a school or anything. Is that appropriate? Is it halachically usser?
is it halachically mutter, but just not appropriate, or is it totally fine and no problem, and get with the times, Rabbi, and there shouldn't be any issue whatsoever. So that is a question that someone asked that we speak about.
I think there was a shul recently, I think the Young Israel, the rules in the Young Israel charter, is that to be a Young Israel, you're not allowed to have a woman president. And I think that's why there was a whole fight, I don't know all the details, but there was a whole fight about that in a particular shul. But anyway... So where does this come from?
Let's just go through some of the issues. The Rambam in Hilchas Melech and Perik Aleph Alechehei takes the Pasuk in Devarim Perik in Zion, Pasuk Tazavav, that says, Somtas Melech Melech, where the Pasuk says that you should appoint a king, and the Gemara Darshans, Rambam Kotsa Gemara, Melech V'lo Malcha, that you appoint a king, you do not appoint a queen. It's fascinating.
The Minchas Chinuch writes on that mitzvah, Somtas Melech Melech, that maybe that's only a din in the Sima, Maybe it's only a din in the appointment of a king, that you're not allowed to appoint a queen. But maybe if a melech dies and he only has a daughter, maybe she becomes queen by default. Which is interesting. I don't think most of the achronim assume that way.
But the Rambam says, oh, so just like you're not allowed to appoint a woman as a queen, so too a woman can't be in any position of leadership. So too any position of serara over the Jewish people, a woman is not allowed to take. It's just an extension of the king.
So the Kasar Mishnah points out on the spot that when Chazal make that drash of Melech ve'lo Malchah, they only say Melech ve'lo Malchah. They don't say anything about all leadership positions. They don't say anything about Sererah.
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Chapter 2: Is it halachically permissible for women to serve as shul presidents?
They just say Melech ve'lo Malchah, that a man can be a king, a woman cannot be a king. So Moshe in the Chuvah, in the Gros Moshe Yerdei Chalek Beis, Tuchuvah, Simen Mem Dalen, Simen Mem Hei, suggests that maybe the Rambam is based on the Gemara Yivama stuff, Mem Hei Amad Aleph. The Gemara Yivama says...
that the Torah does not allow us to appoint a ger as a king, but not only that, a ger is not allowed to take any position of srarah either, any position of authority.
And Ramosha says that the Rambam probably assumes that a ger and a woman have the same din, that just like a ger is not allowed to take a position of srarah, and it's not just the din of king, it's just that king is set up as the paradigmatic example of a position of srarah, but really any other position of serara would also be included.
So too by a woman, when Hazal Darshan, Melech V'Lamelka, that's just a paradigmatic example of serara, but all types of serara would be asr. So a couple of things to point out over here. is how do you define Srarah? And then we have to deal with does everyone agree to the Rambam?
So first in terms of how to define, right, the Rambam is clearly Machmir, that a woman cannot be in a position of Srarah. So what is Srarah? Can a woman be a head of school, of a principal of a girl's school? So I would imagine even in the most Haredi circles, women are principals of schools, right? So why is that allowed? Is that a position of Srarah?
So, the definition of surah is a little bit tricky. It's very tricky, actually. The Gemara in Kiddushin, on Dafayin Vavan Beis, tells us that a ger should not be appointed to a position where he inspects people's weights. You know, the weights that they use for their scales when they're selling produce. So, the ger shouldn't be the guy doing the inspections.
And, because that's viewed as a position of surah. Now, is that a very prestigious position? It's not really a prestigious position. L'chor, it's got nothing to do with prestige. What is it? So, Rav Moshe understands that a
seems to understand as follows that when the purpose of a job that a person has is not only to do the bidding of the person who employs you but to actually sometimes work against them and oversee them and do things that they don't want and implement things against those who you're in charge of or even who are in charge of you that would be a position of srarav
But a position that just has a certain measure of power over other people, like you're a boss in a company, that doesn't count as a position of srarah. It has to be where you're dafqa working against somebody. So Ramosha discusses the possibility, what about a ger, being a rosh yeshiva, or a mashkiach in a yeshiva.
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Chapter 3: What does the Rambam say about women in positions of leadership?
So he's not allowed to go, he's not there to oversee and make sure things are being done right by those who employ him. So according to that, Moshe writes, Someone who just inspects to make sure that they supervise the kashrus. So what happens when I'm supervising kashrus? Someone pays me money to make sure that they're doing their job properly. and that they're not stepping out of line, right?
That's what happens. The company pays the mashkiach to give them a hashkacha, but then the mashkiach is overseeing, oh, wait, what's that? What's the label on that package? And he's stopping them, and he's able to control what they're doing, and he has a position of authority over them.
So Ramosha Hall is being a mashkiach, even though sometimes it's a thankless job, and it's a job that people don't feel like is a very prestigious and cushy job, but it's srara, according to Ramosha's definitions. And therefore, Ramos says a woman should not be mashkiach.
He says the easy way around it is, hire a man as the mashkiach, and then the man can have the woman work for him to oversee that everything is going okay. But ultimately, the Rav Hamachshir is the one who's really the one in the position of srarah. That is Ramos' definition of srarah, at least. Now, do all the Rishonim agree with Rav Moshe? So the answer is clearly no.
The Tosos Masechas Nidon Dav Nun allows a woman to be a Dayan. L'cha'orah, that would seem to be a position of serarah regardless of what you hold. Sefer Achinuch, the mitzvah Taf Tzadi Zayin, says that a woman can't be a king. And then in the next mitzvah he talks about a ger, and he says that a ger is not allowed to be a king or have any other position of serarah.
which implies that a woman is allowed to have a position of srarah. It's just a ger that's not allowed a position of srarah.
Rav Moshe says that l'chor rashi in Kiddushin, and the ran in Kiddushin, also disagree with the Rambam's opinion, because they say that the isser of a ger being in a position of srarah is based on the terminology som tasim, whereas a woman, the exclusion of woman, is based on the word melech, melech velo malka,
not based on the word somtasim. So somtasim means there should be no appointments of this person. So ger is somtasim, but not a ger. You can't do any sima of a ger. But a woman is just melech v'lomalka. It's not a din in the appointment, it's a din in who is a king. Only a melech is a king, not a malka.
And Ramosha writes the Ramban and the Rashba probably also disagree with the Ramban on this issue. Because the Ramban and the Rashba don't deal with the issue of Devorah being a judge. They just don't think it's an issue. So if you're not going to think it's an issue, obviously it's because you think that there's no problem of an issue of Shorah.
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Chapter 4: How do different sources interpret the role of women in leadership according to halacha?
The shul president has to make sure the rabbi is doing his job and the shul board members. They make sure that everyone who works for the shul is doing what they're supposed to be doing. And even though the rabbi technically is the ultimate halakhic authority in the shul and he's viewed as the figurehead of the shul, but there are people who work beneath him that actually oversee him.
So it's like the mashkiach in a certain way. So Rav Moshe thinks that a woman should not be appointed on the board of a shul. There are postcum that allow women to serve on the board of a shul, but not as president, because they hold that president is a position of srarot, just based on it being the highest office. Others say that they could serve even as president, because...
Rav Chaim David Alevi writes in the Tshuva that he thinks that even according to the Rambam should be able to be president of a shul because it's only a din in forcefully taking a position of serara. But when a person is voted to that position then maybe even the Rambam would agree that a woman is allowed to take that position. So it seems that that's the shita of some poskim.
I just want to add that that there's another concern over here also. A shul president typically works very closely with the rabbi. The rabbi and the shul president are in constant contact with each other. They're always meeting with each other, always talking to each other about every single issue that comes up in the shul, and that's the shul president's role.
It's probably not a great idea to have set up a situation where the person you work closest with, even though in the business world, al-karchenu, that happens all the time, and you don't really have your choice.
But for a married man and a married woman, who are both frum, to be constantly working with each other, and they're not married to each other, to constantly be working with each other, and have all this time spent alone with each other, even if they manage to technically get around, the Yisram of Yichud is probably not a very good idea. It's probably not the wisest thing. to do.
I know when I meet with women in my shul, if a woman wants to come talk to me, I will not meet with a woman unless my wife is in the house. If you don't want my wife to hear, I'll tell my wife not to listen, but she's got to be within earshot anyway. She's got to be in the house. I want her walking in and out of the room even once in a while or just around the area.
I don't want to deal with that kind of... I mean, that's just a general public policy thing in terms of... avoiding any sorts of accusations or anything like that, but it's also just a good idea in terms of how closely men and women should be interacting with each other. I've written on this topic in terms of how closely men and women should be interacting with each other.
There is, in our world, a little bit too much of a sense of comfort that people have with other people's wives. People assume once you get married, the issue to talk to girls goes away. All of a sudden, you could be buddy-buddies. That's really not the way the Shulchan Aruch said. Shulchan Aruch says that you're not supposed to have strong social relationships with women who are not your wife.
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