What If… Guardiola never became a manager?
episodePreviously titled “What If… Guardiola never became a manager” — renamed by the publisher on Aug 31, 2026
Transcript
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What is the premise of the ‘What If…’ series and this episode’s sliding‑door question about Pep Guardiola?
The Athletic FC.
What if one of the most decorated coaches of all time never actually became a manager?
The origin story for Jose Mourinho almost treats that as the moment where he is everything that this man stands for now. I'm going to try and do the opposite.
I think Burnley would benefit. I think he wouldn't have stuck to his guns at Burnley and they would have gone 4-4-2 to stay up and maybe finish top ten.
Hello and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Emma Payton. We have a brand new series for you. This is What If. We'll dive into the game's biggest sliding doors moments and discuss how life might look on an alternative timeline. So what if Roman Abramovich bought Spurs instead of Chelsea? And what if Brazilian Ronaldo went injury free? Let's find out, shall we? What Well, with me today for episode one is The Athletic's Tim Spears and John McKenzie. Gents, welcome along. I feel like we're going to have some fun on this podcast. Tim, tell our listeners, tell our viewers what they can expect from this series.
So I guess we're going to combine nostalgia, which we all like talking about, but also with predictions, which are so huge in football now. We all love looking back to when football was better, and everybody thinks football was better in the past, no matter what generation you're from. But we all love predicting things. It's like... There are huge industries devoted to predicting things. All we do on podcasts is speculate
like what's going to happen
next. So I guess on this pod, we're sort of going to ponder sort of, you know, what if a manager didn't get sacked? What if so-and-so didn't score a 90th minute winner? And look at like alternative realities and histories grounded in facts and knowledge, hopefully. But
a
little bit of a sort of cheeky little fun side as
well. We're going to have fun.
Yeah, absolutely. That's
key here. John, I mean, you have literally written a book about today's subject. So hold up the book. I mean, there's one behind you as well, but the specter of Pep. So our focus today is Mr. Pep Guardiola. What if one of the most decorated coaches of all time never actually became a manager? What would that mean for him? For the Premier League, what would it mean for Manchester City? And maybe crucially, what would it mean for the greatest player of all time in Lionel Messi? I mean, John, you obviously have been working on this
book
for a long time, for the last couple of years. Tell us about that, but also just give us a bit of context into Pep's career for those people that have been living under a rock for the past 15 years.
Yeah. So the book is actually about the last 15 years of Tactics history, and it hangs off Guardiola, who has influenced that. So the reason why I've called it The Spectre of Pep is because it's not just about him. It's about the influence that he's had on others. And he sort of forms this ghostly presence that a lot of people couldn't get away from for a long time and arguably still can't get away from now. But his ideas are still pervasive all the same. But yeah, In terms of Guardiola, I mean, I feel silly just explaining to people how Guardiola is good at what he does. For anyone who's been living under a rock. Guardiola only failed to win a league title four times one of which came during a season where he took a sabbatical from football altogether.
In fact up to the 24-25 season the only season in his career where he hadn't won a major trophy was the 2016-17 season his first at Manchester City. Add to this the fact that during his this 15 season spell he only failed to win a knockout tournament in two of them and it's hard to argue that there's been a more successful coach in elite European football than Guardiola at least when it comes to trophy haul. But the book itself is also about the wider picture as well, the influences that he has. So again, I use a quote from Fabio Capello in the book where he describes the Guardiola era as one of the three greatest legacies in the modern history of football after the Dutch school and Arrigo Sacchi's AC Milan.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the premise of the ‘What If…’ series and this episode’s sliding‑door question about Pep Guardiola?
0:02–6:10
2
How do Tim Spiers and Jon Mackenzie describe Pep Guardiola’s influence on modern tactics and other coaches?
6:10–11:44
3
What would Lionel Messi’s career look like if Pep Guardiola had never managed Barcelona?
11:44–16:36
4
How might Manchester City’s trophy haul and Premier League dominance change without Pep’s tenure?
16:36–22:16
5
What alternative paths could Pep have taken – mid‑table Premier League club, a break from football, or a different league?
22:16–27:50
6
How would other top managers and clubs (e.g., Jurgen Klopp, Arsenal’s Mikel Arteta) be affected in a Pep‑less timeline?
27:50–34:17
7
What would England’s national team look like if Pep Guardiola had taken the England job?
34:17–39:10
8
What was the ‘Who Am I?’ trivia game and how did it wrap up the discussion on Pep’s legacy?
39:10–43:18
Speakers
3 identifiedMore from The Athletic FC Podcast
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