What now for Tuchel and England?
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The Athletic FC.
Welcome to Times Square here in New York after Argentina's late comeback victory over England. This is only the start of the party. We're preparing for a messy, driven pilgrimage to this city ahead of the final on Sunday.
Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Levinson. Messi again O'Reilly can't stop the ball in Lautaro Martinez heads it in Argentina have done it again and it's happening to England all over again
Yeah, so that is the celebratory side of the story.
How did Argentina complete a Messi-inspired comeback to knock England out of the World Cup?
But what happened to England? Dear, oh dear. And where does this leave the future of Thomas Tuchel? Welcome to our studio here at ACAST in New York City. Feeling a little bit deflated. Got to admit that this morning. Welcome along to The Athletics, Adam Crafton. Lovely to see you. How are you?
I'm good. Welcome to therapy. Yes. It feels like that, doesn't it? Yeah, we're here to talk through it and break it down. Yeah, devastating, really. As devastating an England exit as I can remember from that stage of a competition when you're that close and then it felt very self-inflicted.
Yeah. And Ruben Pinder's here as well.
Hello.
How are you?
I've been better. I've been better. Yeah. It's a familiar feeling though, isn't it?
Yeah.
And every two years it comes back and you're reminded of just how gutting it is. And then we go again.
Yeah, it's going to be a bit of a therapy session. You're bang on with that. We're going to start, though, by reflecting on that victory for Argentina by hearing from our England correspondent, Jack Pitt-Brooke, who was in Atlanta to watch it all fall apart.
England are out of the World Cup. That's the Atalanta Stadium behind me where England lost 2-1 to Argentina. I think what makes this so painful is that in one sense it was a very familiar story. England got the lead, they retreated and retreated and retreated, they offered nothing going forward and eventually they were punished. What makes this bad is that I felt like this is what Thomas Tuchel chose. England weren't forced back necessarily, but he chose to go back to the Azteca plan. You know, the five at the back, getting Consa on and then getting Dan Burton on to try and head away crosses. But because England camped in their own penalty area for so long and offered no pace on the break after they took Anthony Gordon off, England offered nothing at all.
They didn't give Argentina any difficult questions to think about. It meant that England were camped in, giving Lionel Messi so much space that it almost felt inevitable that Argentina would win the game in 90 minutes. I think this goes down as a huge mark against Thomas Tuchel. He was brought in because he was a knockout master, he was a tactical genius, he'd have a bespoke plan for every game. And here, he got the plan wrong. His proactive changes made things worse for England. They removed England's threat on the break. They opened up the game for Argentina. And I really think this has done serious damage to Thomas Tuchel's standing with the English football public. He's just signed a new contract, which will take him through to the Euros.
And I don't think his position is under threat. But I'm also not sure his relationship with the English football public will ever quite be the same again.
Yeah, we're going to pull on quite a few of the threads that Jack raised there. Adam, let me come to you on that. Obviously, we've heard a lot about this Azteca plan being cracked open and used once again. At the Azteca, England were down to 10 men. There was no need for the Azteca plan this time around, was there?
No, but I mean, we talk about the Azteca plan, which sounds like a sort of like long-term political project or something. But as you say, that was a very unique situation. Ten men, very unique kind of atmosphere, conditions, altitude, all of that. It made sense in the moment. But they did it again against Norway, remember, in the last... It was quite a long injury time, I think maybe 10 minutes, and they did it for that as well. I didn't think... It kind of worked because they won the game, but I found it strange because at that point, Haaland wasn't on the pitch.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:02–0:52
2
How did Argentina complete a Messi-inspired comeback to knock England out of the World Cup?
0:52–8:58
3
What tactical choices did Thomas Tuchel make after England took the lead?
8:58–15:50
4
Why did pundits call the re-used 'Azteca plan' controversial against Argentina?
15:50–25:32
5
Did Tuchel's substitutions remove England’s counter‑attack threat?
25:32–47:29
Speakers
5 identifiedMore from The Athletic FC Podcast
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